WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 days!

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kajukenbo
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WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 days!

Post by kajukenbo »

Great job and congratulations to the researchers!

Yeast suggests speedy start for multicellular life:
[ http://www.nature.com/news/yeast-sugges ... ife-1.9810 ]

Pictures!!
[ http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/ ... llularity/ ]

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redwullf
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by redwullf »

You can't trust these scientists. I'm sure they rigged these results somehow as part of their ongoing effort to attack religion. We all know evolution isn't true!


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But no, seriously. Very interesting stuff, especially when you consider single-celled organisms dominate the timeline of evolutionary history. After a couple billion years or leisure, they suddenly took off it seems.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by Arduin »

Now, if we could just a theory on the origin of life. That's the missing piece.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

Arduin wrote:Now, if we could just a theory on the origin of life. That's the missing piece.
Not a problem, they have already proven that they can get amino acids from primordial soup and electricity.*
* [edit] on second thought, they may have got primordial soup from inert gases and electricity.
Carl Sagan did a whole segment on in on Cosmos back in the 80's - which is on NetFlix Instant streaming if you want to check it out. You should if you have never seen the show.
More recently they have begun finding additional signs of amino compounds in meteorites.

Point is, there are several good scientific hypotheses about how life began on Earth.
Developing a sound scientific theory is next, but I am optimistic that it will not be much longer.
This post was poorly worded originally, and therefore technically inaccurate because I made it sound as if there was a scientific theory about "abiogenesis" - aka the Origin of Life.
Thank you to Arduin for pointing that out.

The Brains are mostly just working on the details and trying to re-create those conditions to run tests.

Although everyone with a 6th grade education SHOULD know this, the word "theory" in science does not mean anything like "guess"
It is NOT the same word or context one might use when saying "It's just a theory."
A "scientific theory" is backed by reproducible, peer reviewed experiments and tests.
"A scientific theory is a set of principles that explain and predict phenomena. Scientists create scientific theories with the scientific method, when they are originally proposed as hypotheses and tested for accuracy through observations and experiments. Once a hypothesis is verified, it becomes a theory."

A good explanation of Scientific Theories and Laws for your kids is here:
[ http://thehappyscientist.com/science-ex ... ory-or-law ]

Saying something like "Evolution is just a theory." is a quick way to get yourself marginalized when talking to educated adults.
It demonstrates a disturbing degree of ignorance and scientific illiteracy.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by AGNKim »

My internal Nostradamus says this won't end well. I mean, would you go to a religion vs. science forum and discuss RPGs?

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by Relaxo »

Kim, FTW!

That said, This is fascinating and I'll have to read it all when I get a chance (the articles, not the forum, I mean).
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

AGNKim wrote:My internal Nostradamus says this won't end well. I mean, would you go to a religion vs. science forum and discuss RPGs?
Point taken. I had not intended for it to go in that direction but when I saw the word "theory" used, my educator genes kicked in.
There is enough information in the links for everyone to research it if they wish.
I will drop the issue here. I do not know how to close the thread.

Thanks, my bad.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by Arduin »

Server vomited. Double post
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by Arduin »

kajukenbo wrote:
Arduin wrote:Now, if we could just a theory on the origin of life. That's the missing piece.
Not a problem, they have already proven that they can get amino acids from primordial soup and electricity.*
Um yes, a problem. Hence, there has never been an actual theory put forward through peer review... If you think no problem, publish a paper with one in a peer reviewed journal... ;)

I think it will take at 100-200 more years. Probably one of the toughest science problems we have.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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AGNKim wrote:My internal Nostradamus says this won't end well. I mean, would you go to a religion vs. science forum and discuss RPGs?

Who posted about religion? Did the mods delete it?
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

Arduin wrote:Who posted about religion? Did the mods delete it?
Not that I saw but I'm trying not to stir the pot.
I'll reply via PM because you made a good point and I did not accurately answer your question.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by Arduin »

kajukenbo wrote:
Arduin wrote:Who posted about religion? Did the mods delete it?
Not that I saw but I'm trying not to stir the pot.
Oh. Never seen that on this site. Don't think you have to worry much about that here.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by redwullf »

Next kajukenbo is going to tell us that the Universe sprang from a "hot dense state" some 13.7 billion years ago, instead of springing into existence in the blink of an eye 6,000 years ago. We have documented evidence for the latter, after all.

OK, sorry, I'll stop. Just couldn't help myself. :twisted:
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by serleran »

I was more impressed when Japan grew brain cells on microchips.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

redwullf wrote:Next kajukenbo is going to tell us that the Universe sprang from a "hot dense state" some 13.7 billion years ago, instead of springing into existence in the blink of an eye 6,000 years ago. We have documented evidence for the latter, after all.

OK, sorry, I'll stop. Just couldn't help myself. :twisted:
You're killin' me! LOL!!

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by redwullf »

Speaking of theories...

Lawrence M. Krauss, when asked about the Universe springing from nothing (in an interview for his book, "A Universe from Nothing"), said, "Empirical discoveries continue to tell us that the Universe is the way it is, whether we like it or not..." This quote also appears several times in one of my favorite books, "Science Matters: Achieving Scientific Literacy" by Robert M. Hazen.

My opinion on "theories:" First, "Science Matters" should be required reading in Junior High School, again in High School, and again in college. Secondly, anyone who has "doubts" about some of the most fundamental theories driving our understanding of the Universe today would be wise to remember that quote.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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redwullf wrote:Speaking of theories...

Lawrence M. Krauss, when asked about the Universe springing from nothing (in an interview for his book, "A Universe from Nothing"), said, "Empirical discoveries continue to tell us that the Universe is the way it is, whether we like it or not..." This quote also appears several times in one of my favorite books, "Science Matters: Achieving Scientific Literacy" by Robert M. Hazen.

My opinion on "theories:" First, "Science Matters" should be required reading in Junior High School, again in High School, and again in college. Secondly, anyone who has "doubts" about some of the most fundamental theories driving our understanding of the Universe today would be wise to remember that quote.
Ideally, everyone would get a B.S. degree. It is really frustrating at times discussing with people who only think they know the scientific method.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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Arduin wrote:Ideally, everyone would get a B.S. degree. It is really frustrating at times discussing with people who only think they know the scientific method.
Or worse, who only have an opinion about the scientific method, without understanding it at all. "Well, in my opinion, climate change is just caused by normal cycles of warming and cooling..."

The average level of scientific literacy in America can be summed up by the following quote:

"F&$#ing magnets, how do they work?
And I don't wanna talk to a scientist
Y'all motherf&$#ers lying, and getting me pissed"
--"Miracles" by ICP
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by TheMetal1 »

I have a BA and Opinion...What Challenge level does that make me? :)

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by Arduin »

redwullf wrote: Or worse, who only have an opinion about the scientific method, without understanding it at all. "Well, in my opinion, climate change is just caused by normal cycles of warming and cooling..."
Actually, that isn't a statement about the scientific method at all. It's just an opinion. Now, if they were to back up that opinion with evidence of those cycles existing and the Earth being in a long term upswing..., that would be a different story.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

B.A. and not a B.S., TheMetal1?

I think we can presume you are using a Secondary attribute then ;-)
I'll leave the CL to the experts. :D

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

Maybe we should start a petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide and see how many people sign it.

Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol.

What are some of the dangers associated with DHMO?
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:

* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
* Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
* Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
* Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
* Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.

No wait. That would just depress me.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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kajukenbo wrote:Maybe we should start a petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide and see how many people sign it.
LOL! Well, considering that kids no longer get chemistry classes starting in J.H.S. and very few take in H.S., you'd probably get a lot of sig's...
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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Arduin wrote:LOL! Well, considering that kids no longer get chemistry classes starting in J.H.S. and very few take in H.S., you'd probably get a lot of sig's...
I think 86% of the people approached signed it last time.
This means that for every 100 people asked, only 14 declined.

Just over 1 in 10 people. Like I said.. depressing.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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Just last week I calculated that my LD50 (lethal dose, 50%) intake of dihydrogen monoxide is about 10 liters consumed in under an hour (based on the fact that a healthy set of kidneys can process DHMO at a rate of about 1 liter per hour). A mere 10 liters is likely a fatal dose, can you believe it!

So there you have it, it's TOXIC!

(10 liters of DHMO weighs about 22 pounds)
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

I like this interview with NdGT:
[ http://www.pointofinquiry.org/neil_degr ... he_public/ ]

He talks a lot about the importance of science education and how ignorant and scientifically illiterate the majority of the country is.
The whole interview is about 50 minutes long.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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kajukenbo wrote:I like this interview with NdGT:
[ http://www.pointofinquiry.org/neil_degr ... he_public/ ]

He talks a lot about the importance of science education and how ignorant and scientifically illiterate the majority of the country is.
The whole interview is about 50 minutes long.
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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by kajukenbo »

I would not blame the "public school system" or most science educators for this.

I think it is important to note that the direction of science education (and the public education curriculum in general) is set by State education requirements and local school boards - not by teachers. These are elected positions in most cases.

Anyway, not all public education is bad.
I am a product of public education, but I got grants and scholarships (entirely on my own, with no aid or input from my parents) to put myself through college and get an Engineering degree.
The reality is that I came from a bad neighborhood and a low-rated school district.
I had what many would consider a rough childhood but I still managed to make something of myself, thanks to public schooling.

A part of the problem that should not be overlooked is that many parents tell kids to ignore their science educators for "philosophical" reasons.
If the science contradicts a belief system, the kids are encouraged to ignore the science because the parents choose to believe science is wrong.

That is not a fault of public education. That is the fault of the parents.

It goes one step further when parents decide to "home-school" kids so that they are not even EXPOSED to science in a meaningful way.
The fact that they can get away with this is the fault of lawmakers who were elected in a society that sees this as acceptable.

Let's not forget that there is also a bit of a stigma for being a geek, nerd, or anything of the kind while in school.
Society and peer pressure drives kids away from science because science is not cool or sexy.

[ Disclosure: I am an instructor myself with all sorts of ties with the educational community ]

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

Post by serleran »

You'll get millions of signatures on such a petition. Wicked witches fear water.

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Re: WOW! Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory - in 60 d

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kajukenbo wrote:I would not blame the "public school system" or most science educators for this.

I think it is important to note that the direction of science education (and the public education curriculum in general) is set by State education requirements and local school boards - not by teachers. These are elected positions in most cases.
That IS the public education system.
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