Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

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Julian Grimm
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Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Julian Grimm »

I have this philosophy against nostalgia. I find the whole idea of it detracting of living daily and find it leads to a rosy view of a past that never existed. However, I am prone to it from time to time and today is one of those days. I was sorting out my game collection when I found a bunch of stuff I had printed off from the early days of C&C as well as notes for conversions from AD&D and D20.

I found myself thinking that some of the 'magic' of those early days is gone and that something needs to be done to restore that magic. I found myself thinking of things that are now no more like the LGGC, Castle Zagyg, the GFW series and Melee ( I still want that damn board game!). Much of this won't come back as we no longer have Gary to helm these ideas; I've accepted that even though I don't like it.

I also miss the days when there were things like the Netbook of Classes, Colin Says, Creature Feature, the websites (a list of which are archived in the C&CS forum) and all the fan ideas that came about. It seems to me that we fans have cooled or lost our way a bit and have lost the drive to create. I know I fed of this as we shot ideas back and forth and with that lost I have had a hard time coming to inspiration for anything new.

I really don't know how to say it any more clearly in that I feel something has been lost and needs to be regained. Is this just me having a slightly depressed phase nostalgia trip or do others feel the same way?
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by alcyone »

That stuff is still happening, it's just not centered around C&C and TLG. The wider "OSR" has produced stuff like Fight On!, there is the ConstantCon/Flailsnails stuff going on with Google+, the one page dungeon contest, all of these kickstarters, lots of stuff going on, most of which you can benefit from in your C&C games.

C&C Society/Domesday don't seem to be the answer.

One of the reasons you can't think of anything new is we have too much stuff already! It's a little bit sad, like memories are, but the game is mature and does everything you need it to do, and this creativity you crave, well, it's now something to share with your players. Especially newcomers to the hobby. Maybe if they have a great time playing in your nostalgic sandbox, they'll go out and drive the next wave of C&C goodness.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Arduin »

Julian Grimm wrote: I found myself thinking of things that are now no more like the LGGC, Castle Zagyg, the GFW series and Melee ( I still want that damn board game!).
Someone "recreated" Melee. http://swordandshieldrpg.blogspot.com/2 ... chive.html Link in first article for download. It is a PDF.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by alcyone »

Arduin wrote:
Julian Grimm wrote: I found myself thinking of things that are now no more like the LGGC, Castle Zagyg, the GFW series and Melee ( I still want that damn board game!).
Someone "recreated" Melee. http://swordandshieldrpg.blogspot.com/2 ... chive.html Link in first article for download. It is a PDF.
For that matter, I recently got a Dark City Games solo module, The Thing in the Lake, looks pretty cool, and the rules are pretty much Melee/Wizard.

http://www.darkcitygames.com/
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by capmarvel »

Not sure this addresses the topic exactly...but I've been trying to find "the game" and obviously found C&C. However, I also found Adventures Dark and Deep, Myth&Monsters, Basic Fantasy, Heroes Against Darkness, OSRIC, Fantasy Craft, Hackmaster, etc, etc. Then I discovered the "hot" 13th Age. Not to mention Savage Worlds, Iron Kingdoms, BASH, EABA, Novis, etc, etc.

To be honest, at times it's been overwhelming as there are so many choices out there. And many in the D&D family are very, very, very similar to one another (obviously).

As a relative "newbie" I've been having these thoughts: It's great to have choice, but with so many systems fragmenting the fan-base, might we have been better served by people putting out adventures for an existing system instead of putting out a ruleset that is 98% the same as the last ruleset?

As I mentioned above, "13th Age" seems to be the game of the moment - and the rules do seem interesting - but everything they do you could do in C&C. Of course, they could have just published some game modules for C&C (or D&D or whatever) with alternate rules instead of another system. But that's not "new and exciting". The point here is that there are many that will jump on the "hot game" and of course I'm not sure how you keep a game like C&C "hot" or even "lukewarm".

And when D&D Next is released, I'm sure many of us will buy that just to read if nothing else - so in my case another "distraction" from C&C.

Again...not sure I'm "on topic"...but guess trying to say that personally I haven't done much with C&C because I keep finding other games to look at. But, once I love a game I try to do as much as I can - I'd like to be "involved" and help the game, but would not know where to start. So how does the C&C community tap newcomers "creative energy" while they still have it?

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Arduin »

capmarvel wrote: So how does the C&C community tap newcomers "creative energy" while they still have it?
Are you talking about new players?
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by capmarvel »

Arduin wrote:Are you talking about new players?

As typical with me, I not sure what I'm talking about.

I believe Julian Grimm was talking about "how do us old-timers get our C&C mojo back".

I'm trying to say "I'm new to C&C, how do I help?".

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Sir Osis of Liver »

For me, the magic happens when I get to play at the table of an awesome CK. GaryCon is great for that. It's a magical experience when you find you get sucked into a master storyteller's world for a few hours. As one who enjoys being on both sides of the screen, it's even better to try incorporating what made somebody else's game magical into the games I CK.

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Julian Grimm »

Instead of posting several replies with quotes, I'm gonna try doing it this way:

Arduin: The Melee I am talking about was a planned board game from TLG that involved jousting and a grand melee event. You had different knights with differing abilities in jousting or in combat. IIRC, there was also to be a way to include your C&C characters in the game. I loved the idea and would have loved to see it come.

Also, there was a planned Tarzan board game in the works and another game from Tom Wham being sold called Planet Busters. I would love to see this brought back to the light of day or at least know what happened to all of them.

Aergraith: I am well aware of what the overall OSR is doing. However, I had always hoped that C&C would have had its own microcosm of sorts to work with. There was a beginning to it when Goodman Games was converting it's original DCC modules to C&C and more than a few fans working on things. Sadly, this petered out over time as people left due to real life concerns or finding other games.

As for the C&CS, I think it is safe to say that as it stands the C&CS is pretty much dead. I would like to see it brought back but it will take quite a bit of work and more than one person could do. This has been a problem that I keep coming back to. How to get it going again is a question I have been working on but have not had much success in finding a solution.

I won't comment on Domesday as Pat is still working on it but I have not heard from him lately. I would rather not speak for him.


capmarvel: You have hit the bullseye. Many of those who were doing fan work for C&C have moved on. A few are still here but a mixture of real world concerns and possible burnout has slowed or killed our creative energy (or seems that way). I am also sure that the maturity of the game and the wider OSR has helped drive this situation a bit.

As to how you can help, the best way would be to write up something from either your own campaign or just for fun and post it. There will be those that will critique it and we can begin sharing ideas again. Also, if you have time think of things that could be done to help rebuild the C&CS or revitalize the fan side of the game.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Arduin »

Julian Grimm wrote: Arduin: The Melee I am talking about was a planned board game from TLG that involved jousting and a grand melee event.
Ah! when you mentioned nostalgia & Melee I thought of the 1977 game.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Julian Grimm »

I had forgotten there was another Melee game out there. That one was a few years before I was thought of. :lol:
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Arduin »

Julian Grimm wrote:I had forgotten there was another Melee game out there. That one was a few years before I was thought of. :lol:

I didn't know that were just a kid! :mrgreen:
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Julian Grimm »

I wish. :lol:
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Treebore »

For me the nostalgia was real. When I got into C&C it was my last attempt to even stay a gamer. I was so burnt out on the rules bloat of 3E. I recalled back before I got wrapped up in what became 3.5E that my gaming mantra was "Simpler is better." So I had heard about C&C, and it claimed it would give me "simpler". So I gave it a go. At first I had a lot of changes to go through. To purge myself of the now ingrained need of copious and detailed rules. To take myself back to when I last fully embraced "simpler is better." Once I finally, after many months, got back "there" I fell in love with gaming again. Here I am about 8 years or so later. Still using C&C as my primary game system of choice, with short side adventures into more complex games I like, such as L5R, Shadowrun, FATE stuff, Eclipse Phase, Cthulhu Tech, Aces and Eights, trying out 4E and D&D Next, playing 1E AD&D again, and so on. Plus I do other forays into simpler games like Traveller and Swords and Wizardry. So for me the nostalgia was real, and rekindled my love of gaming once again. The magic is back once again for me and still going strong. Sorry it hasn't happened for you.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Dracyian »

I'm rather new to the role playing realm of table top gaming. I have played board games and card games for years. I still have my collection of Magic Cards and I am bringing them to Gamehole con inhopes for a few pick up games, I gave a try to all sorts of card games as for a while that was my thing, I have triend the Dragon Ball Z card game, the Gundam Wing, Yu Gi Oh, Bleach, Pokemon, and I am missing at least one more in there but I always kept going back to Magic the Gathering.

For me it was the sense of mysticism, fantasy and the true flexibility of the game. What I mean by that is there are multiple ways to win and more have been invented as the game has gone on. On top of that there have been an additions on how to obtian hese win conditions and how to prevent these win conditions. For a while I played to win in the most efficient way possible. That however gets boring so what I would do is build a deck made to win in an off the wall manner. the carsd it used were bizarre, or the chosen methods were unheard of in tournament or professional play but to me thats what made it fun.

I have been trying to bring this into my games of C&C, the games I run and play in.

I guess to some up what I rambled about is for me when I get nostalgic I look at what I have got and what works and then stare intently out the window for 5 minutes, refocus and try to figure out how I can reinvent what works. C&C is such a wonderful system especially for those who are particular about how their games are run in that it is flexible, adaptable and fun.

I also think it will help if we always keep in our minds while doing anything associated with C&C wheteher it be playing, gaming, aruging, discussing or just reminscing about it that the CK is ultimate authority when he runs a game and creates a universe, why I say this is because I learned a lesson taught to me by my father when playing these games. As long as there is a reasonable out for the players the CK, the DM, the GM is free to change the realm and the universe to get what he wants out of it and if the players know that he will do this and come in the game up for the challenge of finding the outs given to them by the CK it brings that creativity. I see so many people on here inventing new bad guys, putting spins on old bad guys, changing worlds to fit their ideals, rearanging classes, inventing spells, deleting spells, changing spells. It makes the game new each time.

The more off the wall the initial idea the better the end results wll be if you have time to think it through. Invent a world where there is no fire used or created because there is methane in the atmosphere. Alter burning hands to warm hands so they can still cook and keep things warm and make it an innate ability to everyone that isn't able to survive the harsh cold.

Just stuff like that can change a whole game and how your players perceive it, they will have to rework their whole thought structure.

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Arduin »

Julian Grimm wrote:I wish. :lol:
Yeah, don't we all.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Rigon »

Much like Tree, I came to C&C because of burn out from 3.5 and rules bloat. When I started with C&C, I converted some of my favorite things from 2e. All of which can be located in my sig. Also, it brought me to this arse-kicking community, which really helped to revitalize my interest in gaming. Thanks to this community, I've gotten to play games that I never would have before, like Traveller, L5R, and others, but I still come back to C&C.

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

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Rigon wrote:Much like Tree, I came to C&C because of burn out from 3.5 and rules bloat. When I started with C&C, I converted some of my favorite things from 2e. All of which can be located in my sig. Also, it brought me to this arse-kicking community, which really helped to revitalize my interest in gaming. Thanks to this community, I've gotten to play games that I never would have before, like Traveller, L5R, and others, but I still come back to C&C.

R-

Rgr on that.

Even though I do not get to play or run a game - hope one day real life will get out of the way of my fun ;) .

I got into C&C when I came back to gaming right at the time of 3.5 ... It took me and my group 2 1/2 hours to make 4 characters, and then the next weekend in 8 hours the party only finished 2 combats, and did NO role playing but argued about what feat was best for the best roll. That dampened my new found fire to play again

After that, I stumbled onto C&C, found this community, and the fire came back to life. Then I got to jump into some games (Tree's yearly Ravenloft game, LS's 1st Forgotten Realm's campaign and on or 2 others here and there. They were a blast!) Like the good ole days where major combat was finished in 15 - 30 min, the rules were 'light' and the groups were a blast to play with.

Also, from you guys, I've heard about other games I never played back in the day (traveler) & others that I'd missed if it wasn't for you all (L5R). Even though I don't get to play these games it is good to hear about them.

For me this is 'true nostalgia' and more associated with the guys here & the troll lords, than the rules themselves. Though the rules do help (where the 3.5 bloat hurt). I'll admit I'd love to see more things like JG mentioned (Colin Says, Netbook of Classes, etc), However, I don't have time to play or run a game much less ad to fan based elements of the community, so I can't throw stones at this lack.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Treebore »

The Netbook of Classes has now been largely integrated into the C&C Companion, which the Trolls now host on their site. Along with much of the old material that used to be hosted in individual locations. So while all the individual input appears to have disappeared, much of it is still around in the Companion.

http://www.trolllord.com/downloads/index.html
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

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I just want to say that my 'nostalgia' thing has nothing to do with a lack of love for C&C. It is more of a missing of the early days of the game when a lot more seemed to be going on. I look at the explosion of material from the OSR and sometimes wonder why the C&C community has not followed suit?

However, these feelings usually precede a creative spurt so maybe I am getting ready to put some stuff out there.
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Treebore »

Julian Grimm wrote:I just want to say that my 'nostalgia' thing has nothing to do with a lack of love for C&C. It is more of a missing of the early days of the game when a lot more seemed to be going on. I look at the explosion of material from the OSR and sometimes wonder why the C&C community has not followed suit?

However, these feelings usually precede a creative spurt so maybe I am getting ready to put some stuff out there.
For me the explosion of OSR stuff is an explosion of stuff for C&C. After all, the vast majority of my C&C campaigns have been based on either C&C modules or 1E modules. So I am pretty much OSR all the time. Even though I have used a 3E module here and there. Like I currently run a random Saturday game on line where I am using 3E modules recently converted to Swords and Wizardry by Frog God Games, and those who have played said they have had a lot of fun.

So the way I look at it, anything anyone puts out is a boon for us C&C gamers. After all, one of the big reasons I was interested in C&C in the first place was how universal it is. I've ran with that ever since, using whatever I own from every edition and version of D&D I own. Thats my creative outlet, integrating the wide variety of stuff I own into usable C&C material. Which shows I am not very creative, because its pretty darn easy to do.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Christina Stiles »

Julian Grimm wrote:I just want to say that my 'nostalgia' thing has nothing to do with a lack of love for C&C. It is more of a missing of the early days of the game when a lot more seemed to be going on. I look at the explosion of material from the OSR and sometimes wonder why the C&C community has not followed suit?

However, these feelings usually precede a creative spurt so maybe I am getting ready to put some stuff out there.
As an upcoming C&C publisher, I want to begin outputting things to get you excited about C&C again. I have lots of gaming ideas, but I need to know there is an audience of consumers who want these things. I need a base who is willing to support my efforts, in other words.

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

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Christina Stiles wrote: As an upcoming C&C publisher, I want to begin outputting things to get you excited about C&C again. I have lots of gaming ideas, but I need to know there is an audience of consumers who want these things. I need a base who is willing to support my efforts, in other words.
What are you planning on producing?
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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Rigon »

Julian Grimm wrote:I just want to say that my 'nostalgia' thing has nothing to do with a lack of love for C&C. It is more of a missing of the early days of the game when a lot more seemed to be going on. I look at the explosion of material from the OSR and sometimes wonder why the C&C community has not followed suit?

However, these feelings usually precede a creative spurt so maybe I am getting ready to put some stuff out there.
That's always good.

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Christina Stiles »

Arduin wrote:
Christina Stiles wrote: As an upcoming C&C publisher, I want to begin outputting things to get you excited about C&C again. I have lots of gaming ideas, but I need to know there is an audience of consumers who want these things. I need a base who is willing to support my efforts, in other words.
What are you planning on producing?
Right now, alternate player races. I'm an adventure writer, too, though, so I'm sure there will be some of that, as well. What kind of support do you guys most want?

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Treebore »

I need to reread through your Spiros stuff. Bet there are things in there I'd like to see in C&C. I just haven't looked at it in so long I can't recall.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Christina Stiles »

Treebore wrote:I need to reread through your Spiros stuff. Bet there are things in there I'd like to see in C&C. I just haven't looked at it in so long I can't recall.
All is fair game, including races. Do you want some black powder in your C&C?

Also, any interest in planar material?

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by kreider204 »

Christina Stiles wrote: Do you want some black powder in your C&C?
I think the CKG and the C&C Freeport Companion have that covered.
Christina Stiles wrote: Also, any interest in planar material?
That's so setting dependent, I'm not sure.

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Treebore »

I am always interested in Planar material, especially since the Trolls have finally announced their demon/devil book up in On the Anvil.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Am I on a Nostalgia Trip?

Post by Arduin »

Christina Stiles wrote:
Arduin wrote:
Christina Stiles wrote: As an upcoming C&C publisher, I want to begin outputting things to get you excited about C&C again. I have lots of gaming ideas, but I need to know there is an audience of consumers who want these things. I need a base who is willing to support my efforts, in other words.
What are you planning on producing?
Right now, alternate player races. I'm an adventure writer, too, though, so I'm sure there will be some of that, as well. What kind of support do you guys most want?
Adventure mods mostly.
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