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Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:37 pm

I've got a problem with the Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman movies. They share a common flaw that is driving me nuts. In both cases, the movies do a horrible job of defining the heroine's super powers. SPOILERS follow.

In Wonder Woman, we know she is super strong and a highly trained fighter. She creates a shock wave somehow during a training scene early in the movie. She has a lasso of truth and bracers. That's about all we know. Then, at the end of the movie, she's suddenly flying and doing all sort of crazy energy attack shit out of nowhere.

In Captain Marvel, we eventually see the heroine was impacted by the blast of an exploding prototype engine and she received a blood transfusion from some alien dude. She has a chip or something embedded in her neck that purportedly gives her super powers and takes them away when deactivated. During the majority of the film, we see her shooting energy pulses from her fists and she appears to have some degree of super strength and endurance. Then, at the end, she has a bunch of new or stronger super powers that were never defined or explained. The chip was apparently a trick and there is a reference to her having more power than the chip conveyed all along (or possibly the chip suppressed her powers, it wasn't entirely clear). Out of nowhere she starts flying at indeterminate speeds (apparently faster than light/warp speed based on the last shot of her taking off with doppleganger aliens (which is also unclear since the prototype engine was supposed to have been destroyed, so how did the dopplegangers get FTL ships???)). She also is now smashing through space ships with ease, etc. What she can do is never explained and appears to just increase so the end of the movie can be flashier. I've heard references outside the movie that Captain Marvel is the most powerful hero in the Marvel universe, but that is not at all stated or explained in the movie.

What the hell? Am I the only one going through these movies befuddled at all the ass the heroines are kicking by the end of their respective films? I'm all for the heroines kicking ass, I'd just like it explained somehow.

Re: Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:51 pm

Its you. ;)

Seriously, Wonder Woman's change at the end (AFAICT) was due to her tapping into her goddess-hood that Ares unleashed. She'd been working under the assumption that her sword was the big deal, not herself.

Marvel was similar except that her powers were being suppressed by the SI of the Kree. Only when she broke through that could she access her full power. Now, we can argue about her suddenly not only gaining flight but the skill to use it (think Greatest American Hero TV show here), or WW's ability to effectively *use* that revealed power....but hey we could make the same argument with Rhodey in the War Machine armor in Iron Man II! Starlord in Guardians II, etc.

IMO, its just a comics trope. :D

Mike

Re: Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman

Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:52 pm

That's fair, but it's still bugging me. For the vast majority of super heroes, you can easily rattle off what their super powers are. For example,

Spider-Man: Super strength, spider senses, climb walls, and the ability (naturally or mechanically) to shoot webs from his wrists

Wolverine: Regeneration, super strength, adamantium claws

Batman: Gadgets and wealth

The Hulk: Turn green, smash things, jump

Thor: Super strength, magic hammer

Cyclops: Shoot energy beam out of his eyes

Dr. Strange: Magic

There are, of course, exceptions. Super Man can pretty much do anything the writers want and it's not a huge surprise when suddenly he does something never mentioned before. But if, for example, Spider-Man started flying or surviving in the vacuum of space, the reader/viewer would be surprised. Super heroes are largely defined by their super powers. Their origin stories are all about explaining what their powers are and how they got them. The super heroes invariably experience wonder/awe when they discover an ability they have.

Compare that to Captain Marvel. Having seen the movie, I have no idea what exactly her powers are. She is not surprised by anything she can do and doesn't seem to have any problem managing her new powers as she discovers them. I found/find that to be jarring. And that doesn't even begin to cover issues of space navigation for heroes that can fly at warp speed. I'm willing to hand-wave that and just enjoy a super hero movie for what it is even though I know they'd be absolutely screwed in real life.

Re: Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman

Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:07 pm

You forgot Super Agility for Spider Man; Wolverine also has heightened senses and reflexes, military training, and his entire skeleton is covered in adamantium plus longevity due to his healing factor. Batman is a master at deductive reasoning as well as several martial arts. Hulk...well...he can crack a planet in half when he's ticked off enough, is impervious to most normal projectiles and explosives, immune to disease and known poisons, easily deceived while enraged. Thor has increased durability as well as a weapons master, lightening use, flight, dimensional bridge summoning. Cyclops - military training (supposedly). Dr. Strange - Neurosurgeon, Dimensional knowledge and mastery.

Carol Danvers aka Ms Marvel; is both stronger & faster than superman without any of his weaknesses plus in the top 5% of most powerful heroes created, meant to be be able to single handedly wage interstellar war as a slave of either the Kree or Skrull, don't remember which it's been so long. The hyperdrive thing in the movie is a change from actual origin. Shazam was the magical superman knock-off in the comics.

Re: Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman

Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:29 pm

Go0gleplex wrote:Carol Danvers aka Ms Marvel; is both stronger & faster than superman without any of his weaknesses plus in the top 5% of most powerful heroes created, meant to be be able to single handedly wage interstellar war as a slave of either the Kree or Skrull, don't remember which it's been so long. The hyperdrive thing in the movie is a change from actual origin.

My criticism is I don't know that from watching the movie.

Re: Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman

Tue May 07, 2019 9:48 am

What are Captain Marvel's weaknesses even? Admittedly, I haven't seen her stand-alone movie. But seeing what she did in Avengers: Endgame made me raise my eyebrows for sure.

Re: Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman

Tue May 07, 2019 12:55 pm

Elmendorf wrote:What are Captain Marvel's weaknesses even? Admittedly, I haven't seen her stand-alone movie. But seeing what she did in Avengers: Endgame made me raise my eyebrows for sure.

SPOILERS!!!!

Well, she apparently can't fly fast when she needs to. How is it she can engage in interstellar flight, but she was so slow going across the battlefield at the end of Endgame that bad guys were able to touch her? "The first thing you need to know about Carol Danvers is she was an idiot even before she got super powers."
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