Mystara

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:45 pm

It looks like the side OD&D game I got started up is going to evolve into a long term game on the side. So, I'm making this one shot turn into a longer campaign.

What I'm trying to decide now is if I want to go Greyhawk with it or Mystara.

My time RPG'ing, I never really much payed attention to the Mystara setting. So, are there any of you with some Known World knowledge that could help sway me that way or should I just stick with Greyhawk.

Breakdaddy · Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:16 pm

If you can get a hold of some of the gazetteers, particularly the following:
http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gz/gaz1.htm

then you are in for some grade A old school gaming. I ran a Karameikos campaign when I was in the military for the better part of a year and to this day it is one of the most memorable of all of my campaigns (and there are many!). Having said that, if you have access to the old greyhawk boxed set and maybe even the city of greyhawk set then you are probably in better shape to play a long term campaign and even drop things like Yggsburgh into the vast swathes of unclaimed land in the world of Greyhawk.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:34 pm

I ordered a copy of the Karameikos Gazateer and its on its way so I can thumb through it and see if I like.

Greyhawk is my standard game setting and I got most of the Greyhawk materials already in hand.

I'm tempted to get a few of the Gazateer PDF's for Mystara to do a quick overview and see if I may want to actually start shelling out the money for the printed products and use that setting. I just soooo hate PDF's.

If Mystara really is some decent old school goodness, its tempting. But heck, its hard for me to turn down some Greyhawk goodness too.

Damn these gaming dilemas!!!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:01 pm

Mystara is a great world to adventure in and has some awesome higher level modules (Test of the Warlords, Deaths Ride, Sabre River) and a bunch of other solid low level adventures, so I think you'll have fun in either. Get the Glantri material as well, especially the boxed set.

Good stuff, several of the Gaz's are great, you'll probably like the one for the Orcs of Thar, I believe it is called.

Pretty good stuff for me to remember it after 15+ years since I used it/ran it last. Still own it all, though.

Oh, if you can, get the Karameiko's boxed set too.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:06 pm

The Karameikos box set is for 2nd Edition right?

I'm sure it would still prove useful for me with Classic D&D, I just seem to remember it being for AD&D.

I'll have to keep an eye out for the orc gaz at a decent price. I loves me some orcs.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:35 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
The Karameikos box set is for 2nd Edition right?

I'm sure it would still prove useful for me with Classic D&D, I just seem to remember it being for AD&D.

I'll have to keep an eye out for the orc gaz at a decent price. I loves me some orcs.

Even if it is 2E the crunch is very low and converting it to OD&D isn't exactly hard. Probably no harder than converting 2E to C&C, really.
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jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:40 pm

Mystara!

Slowly I turned... step by step... inch by inch...

Seriously, though, Mystara is an awesome campaign setting. Most days it is a flip of the coin which is my favorite, Mystara or the Wilderlands.

I used to do a LOT of fanon for Mystara; you'll find most of it on the Vaults of Pandius, here:
http://www.pandius.com/

There you can find links to virtually every other Mystara site. Pandius is pretty thorough, though.

My advice would be to get the Karameikos gazetteer -- the booklet, not the boxed set; the boxed set reflects the changes of the Wrath of the Immortals, which makes most of the gazetteers obsolete, and changes virtually every country in the Known World!

Start with Karameikos, then buy the gazetteers of the lands your party seems interested in going out to. Karameikos is great for low-level adventure; a ton of the early B Series adventure modules are set there. The X series gives you plenty of options starting at 4th level. All the B/X adventures translate readily into C&C, so you are set. And there are several modern modules that can fit nicely, too, such as Into the Wilds (Dungeon Crawl Classics #28), which can be tied in directly with B2: Keep on the Borderlands.
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seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:07 am

Yeah, this thread has me looking at my B/X rulebooks (the brief Grand Duchy info and map are in the Expert rulebook and X1 has the subcontinent map)....

It's amazing how we forget things... I've always in my mind been so tied to Greyhawk, but as I think back I remember clearly that all my first adventures (including the aforementioned B series and X1) were played here first.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:04 am

jamesmishler wrote:
Mystara!

Slowly I turned... step by step... inch by inch...

Seriously, though, Mystara is an awesome campaign setting. Most days it is a flip of the coin which is my favorite, Mystara or the Wilderlands.

I used to do a LOT of fanon for Mystara; you'll find most of it on the Vaults of Pandius, here:
http://www.pandius.com/

There you can find links to virtually every other Mystara site. Pandius is pretty thorough, though.

My advice would be to get the Karameikos gazetteer -- the booklet, not the boxed set; the boxed set reflects the changes of the Wrath of the Immortals, which makes most of the gazetteers obsolete, and changes virtually every country in the Known World!

Start with Karameikos, then buy the gazetteers of the lands your party seems interested in going out to. Karameikos is great for low-level adventure; a ton of the early B Series adventure modules are set there. The X series gives you plenty of options starting at 4th level. All the B/X adventures translate readily into C&C, so you are set. And there are several modern modules that can fit nicely, too, such as Into the Wilds (Dungeon Crawl Classics #28), which can be tied in directly with B2: Keep on the Borderlands.

Heh! I didn't know that. Guess I wouldn't since I bought and read the Karameikos boxed set back in July from Rigon. So it didn't set off any alarms for me.

So yes, go for the Gaz, then.
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:38 am

Since you are going with Classic, I would avoid the 2nd edition Karameikos boxed set. The GAZ1 is far, far better. And actually, it is the only book you need to launch a campaign. Practically all the modules of the B series are set in Karameikos. I suggest you buy B1-9 In search of adventure, and B10, Night's Dark Terror, possibly the best adventure ever written for Classic D&D (with a strong Warhammer FRP feel; in fact the authors wrote WFRP )

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:42 am

Small thread derailing: It is NICE to see this resurgence of Classic D&D!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Mystara is the campaign world I;ve games in the most (either GMing, or Playing), so it holds a special place in my heart, even though it is not my favorite world.

I have to agree with the above posters, get yourself GAZ1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos. This is an excellent way to start off a Mystara/Known World campaign. I would highly reccomend the GAZs over the 2E material, although there is some good to say about the 2E Mystara material.

GAZ3 Glantri is probably the best of all the GAZs, or at the very least the 2nd best next to GAZ1 Karameikos. Personally, If I'm playing Basic D&D, Mystara is the only world I game with that setting anymore. It's just got the right "feel" to it.

...........................................Omote

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Gleemax Jr · Post by **Gleemax Jr** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:20 pm

James Mishler wrote:
Mystara!

Slowly I turned... step by step... inch by inch...

I have sources who tell me that you were going to write a Hacked Mystara. But, seeing as Kenzer is no longer supporting it (and the license pulled), a task like that would be fruitless. Anyway, just wondering if it was true, or not. Would have been fun, either way.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:24 pm

Thanks for the info folks. NKG has GAZ1 already on its way to me, I'll have to take a look at B10 as well.

Gonna start collecting the Gazateers as I ca, looks like it will be a little pricey to get 'em all though. How are the Alfheim and Rockhome Gazateer's? Those are two I have interest in as well.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:31 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Thanks for the info folks. NKG has GAZ1 already on its way to me, I'll have to take a look at B10 as well.

Gonna start collecting the Gazateers as I ca, looks like it will be a little pricey to get 'em all though. How are the Alfheim and Rockhome Gazateer's? Those are two I have interest in as well.

The absolute must-haves IMO are GAZ1, GAZ3 (describing Glantri, a kingdom ruled my magic-users), GAZ7 (Northern reaches; vikings-like setting; enough said). The demi-human gazetteers are good enough, although the one on Halflings (the Five Shires) is not as strong as the other two. These GAZs introduce other class options e.g. Dwarven clerics, Elven spellcasters, Halflings "masters" (druid like). Nothing essential, but they make for interesting reads.

GAZ10 (Orcs of Thar) would have been nice, if it had not been written as an endless joke
But really, if you must have just one Gazetteer, GAZ1 is the must. You can easily play up to Masters level with just that little book.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:34 pm

Alfheim is a fairly typical sourcebook on the elves of the region. It's worth a look, but you're not going to be blown away or anything. I could say the same for Dwarves of Rockhome, although the GAZ is slightly better then the Alfheim one in that there is more information. Again though, nothing ground shattering as both of these are already 20+ years old.

BUT, if you like old-school Mystara goodness, then these GAZs will be invaluable to getting the feeling of how Mystara/Known World works.

I also highly reccomend the Poor Wizard's Almanac I, II, and III. IMO, there are some of the best ways to get an overall feeling of the uinique massiveness of the world of Mystara. Although, the Poor Wizard's Almanac's deal with a great deal more then just the area of the 15 GAZs.

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Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:58 pm

I like the Rockhome sourcebook. The art is good (most of it is by the same guy that did all that atmospheric Ravenloft art, I think). The content presented is useful for running it as both a destination and as a campaign home. And yes, the aforementioned dwarven cleric is pretty cool.

Rockhome is divided into clans and castes, with different goals and attitudes. Interestingly enough, farmers are considered lowest on the totem pole, because food isn't a permanent creation.

It also presents the dwarves as inventors, being mechanically-inclined, much like Warhammer dwarves.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:31 pm

Dwarven cleric definitely sounds worthwhile.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:33 pm

How's the Hollow World stuff?

Sounds a bit odd to me.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:56 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Small thread derailing: It is NICE to see this resurgence of Classic D&D!

I can't believe I forgot how much fun the classic version could be.

Hell, its got everything. I even love the skill system.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:00 pm

One oft he most unique aspects of the Mystara setting is the Hollow World. The inside of the Mystara orb is actually hollowed out, as it were. A whole new world lies within the center of Mystara.

Almost everything in the Hollow World is a throwback to a more primative time. Older civilizations, and civilizations on the brink of destruction appear in the Hollow World. There's much, much more then that to the "Lost Earth" model of the Holow World, but that's the gist.

In case you may have missed it, Mystara and Hollow World are bits and pieces of real Earth-world civilizations and people, with a definative fantasy twist.

...........................................Omote

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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:04 pm

Thanks for all the info Omote.

I never got into Mystara back in the day. I was aware of its existence but was wrapped up in Greyhawk and Dragonlance.

Looks like I missed some good stuff.

seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:05 pm

Omote wrote:
One oft he most unique aspects of the Mystara setting is the Hollow World. The inside of the Mystara orb is actually hollowed out, as it were. A whole new world lies within the center of Mystara.

Almost everything in the Hollow World is a throwback to a more primative time. Older civilizations, and civilizations on the brink of destruction appear in the Hollow World. There's much, much more then that to the "Lost Earth" model of the Holow World, but that's the gist.

In case you may have missed it, Mystara and Hollow World are bits and pieces of real Earth-world civilizations and people, with a definative fantasy twist.

...........................................Omote

FPQ

Yes, and I freely admit I borrowed this concept when I wrote my homebrew Ilshara design. It was such a cool idea.
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:38 pm

Well, Mystara actually IS our own Earth, during the Age of Magic. As Frank initially conceived the Known World (the name Mystara was only created with 2nd edition), it is almost a parallel of the Hyborian Age. The land mass is actually Pangea, and there are even references to the Old Ones. All this and more can be found in the Immortals set, and the wealth of material therein is much more inspiring than all the subsequent Mystara stuff.

Anyway, DD, you sure missed a lot!

EDIT: actually, the name Mystara was born around the "Wrath of the Immortals" period.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:44 pm

I loved Mystara. My side-game of OD&D kinda snow-balled into a longer campaign ,too. Funny how they have a way of doing that.

Play Greyhawk if your looking for that familiar feeling, or play Mystara if you looking for a new thing. They're both about half-dozen of one sixpence of the other.

Then again, I never played Greyhawk.

Skipped FR,too. I thought it was just too corny. You know? Here we got the Known World and over there we have ... the Forgotten Realms. Whoooooo. Whatever, LoL.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:47 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
I can't believe I forgot how much fun the classic version could be.

Hell, its got everything. I even love the skill system.

Eh, everything and more. And the organisation of the material in the boxed sets is exceptional.

The skill system in GAZ1 is quite good, but rolling under the ability score may make characters too good at secondary skills with respect to their primary functions (a character with an 18 succeeds 90% of the time!).

I devised this system, which is built along the lines of the Weapon Mastery system, and uses bits of the SIEGE engine (since also D&D has prime requisites) but with saving throw mechanics. Well, easier seen than explained
SKILL SYSTEM

Skills are rated according to their level of mastery: Unskilled, Basic, Skilled, Expert, Master, Grand Master. Skill checks are resolved as saving throws, to which attribute modifiers can be applied, depending on the skill.

At Unskilled level the basic skill throw is always 18, regardless of prime abilities. At Basic level the basic skill throw is 18 for non-prime abilities, and 12 for prime abilities. Each skill level beyond Basic subtracts 2 from the roll.

Skill throws table

Mastery level Skill throw (Prime/Non-prime)

Unskilled 18/18

Basic 18/12

Skilled 16/10

Expert 14/8

Master 12/6

Grand Master 10/4

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:16 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Dwarven cleric definitely sounds worthwhile.

Yes, it is a bit like the Elf, i.e. it mixes Dwarf and Cleric.

Actually, creating class variations is quite easy.

For example, a purely Dwarven cleric (as opposed to the "multiclass" above) might be as follows:

HD: d6

Attack: as cleric

Saves: as Dwarf

XP table: as Dwarf

Class abilities: dwarf racial abilities, turn undead, spells

Weapons and armor: as cleric

Maximum level: 12 (after that, Dwarven attack ranks are gained)

Hit points at 10,11 and 12: +2

Or a Dwarf thief

HD: d6

Attack: as thief

Saves: as Dwarf

XP table: as Dwarf

Class abilities: dwarf racial abilities, thief abilities

Weapons and armor: as thief

Maximum level: 12 (after that, Dwarven attack ranks are gained)

Hit points at 10,11 and 12: +3

That's all!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:14 pm

There certainly is a lot of Mystara material out there. If you are looking to get in and get everything Mystara, then I wish you the very best luck. It's an intriguing setting, to be sure. I'm not sure if I like every aspect of it (Wrath of the Immortals, Red Steel, etc), but there parts that I think are the best D&D has ever offered.

Although, if you want a complete breakdown of the deity listing, which is extensive, just check the Vaults of Pandius or be lucky enough to pick up a copy of Wrath of the Immortals box set.

PLUS, again if you manage to pick up the most amazing maps D&D has ever produced, do so. Look for the Eastern Countries Trail Maps and the Western Countries Trail Maps. Both will cost you an arm and a leg, but are sooooo worth it (that is if you are a fan of the Basic D&D/GAZ style mapping system).

........................................Omote

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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:42 pm

A quick question about the In Search of Adventure B1-9 compilation.

How does it stack up to the original modules? I know it only has the Caves of Chaos as opposed to the Keep as well. Does it change too much or is it a pretty good lump purchase?

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:44 am

Well you get nine full modules, some of which I completely ignore. Matter of fact, there are some I've never even run. BUT, if you like adventures modules from back in the day, then this is a cool compilation to pick up.

.........................................Omote

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