Do you have a mapper and caller in your group?

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:17 am

Just was reading and responding to a thread on RPGnet with regard to mappers in Classic D&D and whether you had 'em. My answer and most were YEAH. Otherwise, how the hell else do you get out of the dungeon?

Things have changed somewhat, but it seems to me that mapping is still critical for an adventuring group.

So, does your adventuring group utilize mappers and callers for the PCs?

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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:30 am

Nope. Not at all. From time to time, I'll have one of my players tell my the group decision, but that is few and far between. Mapper? That's me, the CK. Because player's screw up the map so bad, that even the CK doesn't know what's going on.

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SoulCatcher78 · Post by **SoulCatcher78** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:12 am

Omote wrote:
Nope. Not at all. From time to time, I'll have one of my players tell my the group decision, but that is few and far between. Mapper? That's me, the CK. Because player's screw up the map so bad, that even the CK doesn't know what's going on.

...............................Omote

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Tried using a player as mapper once...didn't go so well so I reverted to being the one to sketch out the map for the players. One of the big reasons to have a mapper is to find secret chambers and the like, if the map gets mangled, there's no way you'd ever find some of these things.

As far as a caller, not really ever used one since I've ususally played with small groups (5 or less) where it wasn't a problem. Larger groups might find this method more efficient though.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:55 am

No, we have no need for one, what with 4 whole players and a single DM. Used a caller once in a very large game, but never a "mapper." If someone wants to draw it, I don't stop them, but I don't help them either... I just describe it like they see it, and if they can't figure it out, tough smore's.

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:12 am

Not exactly. We do have a mapper, but the DM does not make us keep such details in the thick of things. It's not THAT hard to remember your way around. Just because I don't have real world visual cues doesn't mean my character loses his way. It's given that characters are not completely blind to their reality. Our mapper uses his talents outside of the dungeon.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:56 am

Mappers? Yes! Callers? Not really.

If you say "Okay, what's past this door." I'm going to let it open whether you were the caller or not. Impulsiveness is fun in game. Usually the team will briefly discuss the next direction to take. We have been using the same team roster (with a few auxilliary players from time to time) for over a year now, steadily. So they pretty much have a routine now and don't take all that long to decide. Unless the last doorway exploded on someone. Then it's usually mule back until somebody gets frustrated enough to kick the next one in, LoL.

Edit: Mapping is most helpful for finding big spots that may hide a secret room, instead of finding the way out. If there is a big blank spot in the middle, people start tapping on the walls.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:46 pm

Used to use a caller from time to time when I was still in California and it wasn't unusual to have 10 players at any given session.

Mappers? Another thing that occasionally seen use. These days I have a battle map tacked to the wall behind my CK chair, and as I'm describing the area I'm usually throwing the map up there too.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:11 pm

No & No.

We tried a mapper once, but I found it much easier just to sketch out the map myself.
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Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:11 pm

OK, I was hoping I wasn't the only one that didn't know this, but apparently I am - What is a caller?

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:44 pm

Greylock wrote:
OK, I was hoping I wasn't the only one that didn't know this, but apparently I am - What is a caller?

Caller= like , a team captain. The main/only person to tell the DM/CK what the party is doing or where they are going. As others pointed out this is mainly helpful when playing in large groups to cut out possible shouting matches or confusion.

Instead of ten people telling the DM what they are doing (and the first person changing his mind by the time the tenth person got to tell the DM) you have one that the whole party tells to and then relays to the DM.

I havn't seen the term in print for quite some time. Over a decade.

SirClarence · Post by **SirClarence** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:49 pm

I used to have mappers in my campaigns, but then I decided to do the mapping myself to speed up game play. I found that it greatly depended on who was mapping and there was generally to much fuss about it. I don't care whether mapping and getting lost because of wrong mapping gives the whole game a realistic aspect or not. The whole issue is simply not that important to me.

Callers OTOH are something that we never used. I found the whole concept irritating from the first moment that I read about it. To me, deciding actions for ones character and stating them to the DM should be something that each player should do him or herself. I'm aware of the idea behind having a caller at the game table, but that little bit of chaos that might arise when you don't have a caller never disturbed while playing.

Stuie · Post by **Stuie** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:11 pm

Greylock wrote:
OK, I was hoping I wasn't the only one that didn't know this, but apparently I am - What is a caller?

You weren't the only one - thanks for asking for those of us not in-the-know. Never needed a "caller" because the groups I've gamed with were really small (3 or 4 players tops).

Mappers: Yes with adults. Playing with my kids, I sketch the map for them.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:18 pm

SirClarence wrote:
I used to have mappers in my campaigns, but then I decided to do the mapping myself to speed up game play. I found that it greatly depended on who was mapping and there was generally to much fuss about it. I don't care whether mapping and getting lost because of wrong mapping gives the whole game a realistic aspect or not. The whole issue is simply not that important to me.

Callers OTOH are something that we never used. I found the whole concept irritating from the first moment that I read about it. To me, deciding actions for ones character and stating them to the DM should be something that each player should do him or herself. I'm aware of the idea behind having a caller at the game table, but that little bit of chaos that might arise when you don't have a caller never disturbed while playing.

Ditto, on both mapping and having a "caller". The only time I had anyone act as a caller was when I had 14 players in my Synnibar campaign.
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SavageRobby · Post by **SavageRobby** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:21 pm

Mapping depends on the environment for us. Some dungeons, especially ones that I fully Dundjinni or tile out (typically the smaller ones), no - mainly because they're not necessary. More maze like ones, and ones that I don't fully tile/battlemap out, then the players can choose to map if they want to. I'm not going to do it for them.
Man, a caller. We haven't used a caller in ... two decades, I guess. My DMing has gotten a lot better, though, so I can handle a full group of eight now, and do a reasonable job of keeping everyone engaged and spreading camera time around fairly well, so it isn't as necessary. Marching order often dictates what can and can't be done as well. The fighter in the back might say he wants to bash open the door, but he's got to get to the door first.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:01 pm

Oh yeah, for the record. We didn't use a caller back in the day, nor do we do anything like that now. For mapping, I do it sometimes and in other situations the players will do it.

Heh, I just came across another suggestion from Gary in BD&D - a "chronicler" who keeps track of the monsters killed. Never used that - interesting though, perhaps for large group encounters at high levels. But then again, the CK really should be in charge of this - with perhaps some input from the players.

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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:50 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
Caller= like , a team captain. The main/only person to tell the DM/CK what the party is doing or where they are going.... I havn't seen the term in print for quite some time. Over a decade.

Thanks for the elucidation. Nope. Never have played with a caller. I started gaming in 1982 or thereabouts, and never have heard of such a thing. Didn't know there was a need, even in large groups. But then, I've generally been lucky to play with folks who know how to get things done. Whenever there is an absolute need for one person to make a decision that affects the team, it gets done in character, and it's not a designated Captain. It's completely situational.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:14 am

I avoided using a caller because I prefer in-game Chaos. It's almost like running an auction sometimes:

"Who's opening the door ... opening the door"

"No one's opening the door? ... opening the door?

"The Paladin's opening the door ... opening the door."

"Rogue's searching the door , searching the door"

AGNKim · Post by **AGNKim** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:57 am

I asked for a mapper volunteer once in a new party and someone asked if they HAD to have one. I said "Of course not", so they didn't. Cut to a few hours later... they are badly bruised and in need of some 'town-time' so they decide to leave. I ask which way they go. After a death or two searching for the exit, THEY decided they needed a mapper.
A caller? Normally not... however, there usually is a 'party leader' who can say what others SHOULD do, but if they don't want to, they just speak up. It only comes up every once in a while.

Oddly, I do use a 'chronicler' to keep track of monsters and to keep track of money and magic items. I only give XP for what is written down. Saves me some headaches and gets the party into all aspects of the game. (i.e., "Dave, did you write down that ogre we killed? And the 47gp and that chalice he had?")
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SirClarence · Post by **SirClarence** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:11 am

Rhuvein wrote:
Heh, I just came across another suggestion from Gary in BD&D - a "chronicler" who keeps track of the monsters killed.

I've read about that before. Except for showing off as a kind of trophy, what's the point in having one? One of my groups once had such a "kill list", but it didn't last long because no one really found any sense in it.

A "chronicler" is what most of my groups have, but they're keeping a group diary about everything that happens - much more useful IMO.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:54 am

khartsfield wrote:
Oddly, I do use a 'chronicler' to keep track of monsters and to keep track of money and magic items. I only give XP for what is written down. Saves me some headaches and gets the party into all aspects of the game. (i.e., "Dave, did you write down that ogre we killed? And the 47gp and that chalice he had?")

We use a "loot guy" system. When they collect up their bits of treasure from room to room he will keep a running inventory. He is also in charge of divying up the weight of it. Then if its not on the list later, they don't have it. Very similar to the chronicler your using, Khartsfield.

AGNKim · Post by **AGNKim** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:45 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
Very similar to the chronicler your using, Khartsfield.

Call me Kim
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:40 am

khartsfield wrote:
Call me Kim

Sure thing, Kim.