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StarSiege Relaunch 
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Skobbit
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Hey, Josh, don't get discouraged, dude.

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Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:19 am
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Red Cap
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I've got to say that I think the skill groups and specializations work great the way they are. Most anything else would make it more complicated. And the Siege engine seems to emphasize simplicity and ease of use. I think its the most elegant part of StarSiege.

I think the point buy nature of the game make most people think that its more complicated than it is. I think another approach would be to make very broad classes that could be customized through options rather than points. Something like warrior, Expert, Adept. Each could have a few options to customize the role to taste.

I think a lot of people come to siege engine games for that simplicity and elegance, and point buy character creation is not what most people think of when they want simplicity.

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Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:31 am
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Mogrl
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I have to say by the sounds of this new edition it will be something I can truly get into. The first printing was just a tool box to me, one that I used with a couple of Traveller games I ran. Now it sounds like its going to be something I will want to use as written, especially since I have some ideas that combine things from Traveller, Eclipse Phase and Cthulhu Tech, and I now think this new version of Star SIEGE will be the "Rosetta Stone" of RPG's that I want to use like I use C&C for my fantasy stuff.

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Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:51 pm
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Lore Drake

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
A couple of friends and I were fortunate enough to playtest on the original. With some improvements, changes, and a makeover, it could really get the attention it deserves. Need any playtesters this time?? :-)


Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:12 pm
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Gonna do my next video review about this game methinks, and mention the eventual relaunch, try to spread word of mouth... :)


Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:20 pm
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Red Cap
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I really like StarSiege, While I look forward to a second edition I'm really glad I got my hands on the first version of the game. Options are always good in my opinion.

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Gritty6 (epic6)


Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:44 pm
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I posted my video review here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12664 :)


Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:04 pm
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Red Cap
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
treant_on_fire wrote:
I posted my video review here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12664 :)

I'll take a look. Thanks.

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Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:00 pm
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Skobbit

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:47 pm
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Hello all,

The thought of a 2nd edition of StarSIEGE and some of the ideas that Josh has been posting intrigued me enough to open up the box again and start playing with the toolkit. Despite buying the game over a year ago, reading it and coming back to it repeatedly, this is the first time I've actually printed out character sheets and started trying to really grok the system.

My first impression when I read the game was the standard, "This looks like an awesome toolkit, but it doesn't have enough to play out of the box." I've read a few of Josh's responses, though, and when I actually look at all the material, there is a hell of a lot there! So, I've asked myself, "Why didn't you play this the first time around?"

I keep coming back to the presentation, although, honestly, even THAT isn't that bad! So what is the problem?

After much considering, I thought I'd sign up to the forums and make my brilliant suggestion: ditch the one letter system for StarSIEGE, format the Trappings and characters into nice summary boxes (a la Pathfinder Basic Box) and spell out what each of the Trappings really means. I know this sounds goofy as hell, but I think that the stats, with their: P R K S C E, the vehicles with their C M S Q, planets with M I C E C L and, most of all, Trappings with R S T V and special abilities with P D X, just confuse the hell out of people. And yes, I may be overstating the case here, but as I'm coming here out of the blue to try and help a game system that I've really come to like, I hope you'll take it in the spirit that it's meant.

Anyways, that's it for now. Again, I'm incredibly happy to hear that SS:EH will have a new edition and the moment it shows up, consider it pre-ordered.

Cheers!

CG7


Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:54 am
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Cgeist7 wrote:

After much considering, I thought I'd sign up to the forums and make my brilliant suggestion: ditch the one letter system for StarSIEGE, format the Trappings and characters into nice summary boxes (a la Pathfinder Basic Box) and spell out what each of the Trappings really means. I know this sounds goofy as hell, but I think that the stats, with their: P R K S C E, the vehicles with their C M S Q, planets with M I C E C L and, most of all, Trappings with R S T V and special abilities with P D X, just confuse the hell out of people.



I second this! I read thru the rules when it came out and frankly couldn't remember what all the one letter abbreviations meant a day later! I know I'm getting old, but at least add a few more letters so it is easier to remember what it stands for. Come on, help a guy out!


Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:21 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Hypothetical question:

How upset would people be if the Fashioning/Trapping System got a major overhaul. Like, so much so that all previous build-outs would be pretty much null and void?

Just trying to get an idea on how attached people are to it. I've been thinking of streamlining the system, but doing so would likely require a major overhaul.

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Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:55 pm
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Skobbit

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Hypothetical question:

How upset would people be if the Fashioning/Trapping System got a major overhaul. Like, so much so that all previous build-outs would be pretty much null and void?

Just trying to get an idea on how attached people are to it. I've been thinking of streamlining the system, but doing so would likely require a major overhaul.


Hey Josh,

Hmmn... That's a tough one. I've recently spend a lot of time with the Trappings/Fashioning system and think it is great. If something works well, I'd think twice about fixing it.

That said, if you've come up with something that is genuinely superior, I'd hate to put a brake on that because of the old system. Would the outcome be the same? Would you be able to use items from the previous system or is it a total re-write? Is there an option to have the streamlined system as an alternate rule or appendix, or is this all or nothing?

Care to explain more about your new system?

Thanks!

CG7


Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:39 pm
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Mogrl
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Good questions.

I am not really invested in the system as is, so I personally would be fine with a total rewrite.

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Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:18 pm
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Clang lives!
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Josh, just curious as to how far along in the re-write are you? I was looking at my SSEH today and thinking about it for an eventual game.

R-

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Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:47 am
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Ulthal
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Hypothetical question:

How upset would people be if the Fashioning/Trapping System got a major overhaul. Like, so much so that all previous build-outs would be pretty much null and void?

Just trying to get an idea on how attached people are to it. I've been thinking of streamlining the system, but doing so would likely require a major overhaul.


Dude, i love the trappings system as is but if you think there is a better way then i trust your decision.


Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:09 pm
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Red Cap
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I got the first edition, So redoing it would be fine by me. That will give me options as to how I want to use it. I mean I can run either way.

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Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:59 am
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Ulthal
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I find it ironic that people complain about starsiege because its a toolbox for telling their own stories and not enough cannon or designed setting for their liking. But this same complaint is the same thing that people love about OD&D, S&W and to some extent C&C. its like here are the tools for making your own sword and sorcery stories and people are all about it and in love with the game. Give them the same tool for a sci-fi setting and they complain there is not enough story and background.


Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:15 pm
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
mordrene wrote:
I find it ironic that people complain about starsiege because its a toolbox for telling their own stories and not enough cannon or designed setting for their liking. But this same complaint is the same thing that people love about OD&D, S&W and to some extent C&C. its like here are the tools for making your own sword and sorcery stories and people are all about it and in love with the game. Give them the same tool for a sci-fi setting and they complain there is not enough story and background.

I don't think it is so much the story aspect that people had a problem with, as just being able to open the box and go without having to make a bunch of stuff first.

R-

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Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:28 pm
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Plus the layout made it hard to be useful.

R-

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Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:32 pm
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Skobbit

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
mordrene wrote:
I find it ironic that people complain about starsiege because its a toolbox for telling their own stories and not enough cannon or designed setting for their liking. But this same complaint is the same thing that people love about OD&D, S&W and to some extent C&C. its like here are the tools for making your own sword and sorcery stories and people are all about it and in love with the game. Give them the same tool for a sci-fi setting and they complain there is not enough story and background.

A toolbox is good but I'm not sure you are right about starsiege being the same tools as C&C but for a sci-fi setting. I debated doing a one shot Star Wars game for May 4th. I don't have C&C or starsiege. I'm confident I could run a one-shot C&C fairly easily due to it's simple mechanics and similarity to other d20 games. Creating pre-gens for the game or even having character creation before the game would probably be fine. The reviews of starsiege make that sound less likely. Without classes and having to build racial/class features and equipments, it sounds like it would be more complex. Maybe it provides enough examples that it isn't a problem. Even so just explaining what everything does to a new player looked like more work that C&C. In the end it didn't seem like starsiege would be a good system for a one shot.

Granted I don't own the game. This is based off of reviews I've read.


Mon May 20, 2013 4:31 pm
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Mogrl
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Yeah, even Traveller has tons and tons of equipment, vehicles, ships and weapons done up for me, as well as has a "build system", because it saves me time. Most of their gear, etc... is either good as is, or so close I just have to do a little bit of tweaking, to make it work for what I want. With SS I have to spend too much time building too much of what I need from the ground up.

So I want it in SS like I have it in Traveller, both ways. Plenty of premade stuff I can just pick and run, as well as a build system for when I really need something specific, and have the time to do the "building".

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Mon May 20, 2013 6:12 pm
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Red Cap
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Treebore wrote:
Yeah, even Traveller has tons and tons of equipment, vehicles, ships and weapons done up for me, as well as has a "build system", because it saves me time. Most of their gear, etc... is either good as is, or so close I just have to do a little bit of tweaking, to make it work for what I want. With SS I have to spend too much time building too much of what I need from the ground up.

So I want it in SS like I have it in Traveller, both ways. Plenty of premade stuff I can just pick and run, as well as a build system for when I really need something specific, and have the time to do the "building".


Its actually one of the reasons I have not been able to sell a game of SS to my players. With C&C and AA my players choose a class and or race, Buy some gear and off we play.

As much as I appreciate the ability to design anything I want with points, Its not really the game we like to play. We did our time with point buy systems (Hero, Gurps, ect ect).

I did come up with my own way of using SS that is more palatable to my group. Prime abilities are chosen just like in C&C and AA. Based on the profession chosen some skills groups are nominated as Class skills like those in C&C. Rather than choosing prime skill groups.

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Gritty6 (epic6)


Tue May 21, 2013 5:08 am
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Ronin77 wrote:
Treebore wrote:
Yeah, even Traveller has tons and tons of equipment, vehicles, ships and weapons done up for me, as well as has a "build system", because it saves me time. Most of their gear, etc... is either good as is, or so close I just have to do a little bit of tweaking, to make it work for what I want. With SS I have to spend too much time building too much of what I need from the ground up.

So I want it in SS like I have it in Traveller, both ways. Plenty of premade stuff I can just pick and run, as well as a build system for when I really need something specific, and have the time to do the "building".


Its actually one of the reasons I have not been able to sell a game of SS to my players. With C&C and AA my players choose a class and or race, Buy some gear and off we play.

As much as I appreciate the ability to design anything I want with points, Its not really the game we like to play. We did our time with point buy systems (Hero, Gurps, ect ect).

I did come up with my own way of using SS that is more palatable to my group. Prime abilities are chosen just like in C&C and AA. Based on the profession chosen some skills groups are nominated as Class skills like those in C&C. Rather than choosing prime skill groups.

I didn't mind the skill based approach, heck, I kind of wanted to use it for a fantasy type game. My problem with SS is the layout, period. There is several different options in the books, but it's hard to tell because everything is jumbled in with the "how to build it" stuff so you lose sight of the examples. The "build it" stuff should have been in an appendix and the examples should have been in an equipment section. Hopefully we'll see a better (more standard) layout with a re-launch, because I'd really like to give this game a run, whether in a sci-fi game or a fantasy game.

R-

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Tue May 21, 2013 1:32 pm
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Ronin77 wrote:
I did come up with my own way of using SS that is more palatable to my group. Prime abilities are chosen just like in C&C and AA. Based on the profession chosen some skills groups are nominated as Class skills like those in C&C. Rather than choosing prime skill groups.

I'd be interested in see this as I've been thinking of doing something similar.

R-

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:48 pm
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