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Rarities Valuation 
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Mist Elf

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:36 pm
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Post Rarities Valuation
Hello, All. First time poster.

I have been collecting C&C stuff for years, so I really do not know why it has taken me so long to get on these forums.

I have 2 items that I was wondering what fellow collectors would value at.

First, I have the 4 miniatures that, to date, I don't think were ever mass produced (and I have read on the forums that they were so limited that even some of the Trolls don't have them, though they have the greens.)

Secondly, I have a copy of the Brewhouse Placemat that was available at Scotty's Brewhouse for Gencon 2011.

Furthermore, I would love to know (maybe one of the Trolls can answer this,) was that Map ever reprinted on mass scale, and I just haven't seen it somewhere?

I would love to post images of both, sadly, both of these items are about 2,000 miles away from me (Long story.)

Thanks, all, and Cheers!


Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:04 pm
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Battle Stag
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
The miniatures are truly rare. None that I have ever heard of have ever come up for auction or for sale. Valuation is indeterminable at this time. The place mats from Scotty's Brewhouse were done in 2011 and 2012. Or was it 2010 and 2011. I remember being at that restaurant and asking the waitress for a few extras. She came back with a stack of them for everybody at the table. A few tables got the hint and collected a bunch of them as well. As for the placemats, I'd say they are rare from the standpoint that not many people had the opportunity to grab them. Of the people I knew that grabbed them, there were probably 50 or so (at least) floating around.

~O

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Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:21 pm
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Mist Elf

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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
Thanks, Omote. I'm slightly surprised to hear about the placemats. I would think that a lot of people didn't know about them, and thus, never got a chance to snag them. There might be people like you who have quite a few at your disposal, but I think for the majority of us, they didn't know, or never got the chance...I might just be "hoping," though. :)

So, besides the miniatures, the Castle Zagyg stuff, and the "Spartan" box, what else became truly rare?


Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 pm
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Battle Stag
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
There were Gary Gygax's personal collection of C&C stuff that went up for auction in 2010 (I think). Though the Castle Zagyg stuff went for big money (GG's Upper Works was $680 or so), GG's personal PHB only sold for $76.00. As far as that auction went, GG didn't have much in the way of C&C products other than the CZ, Upper Works, and the PHB.

The only other items that I can think of for Castles & Crusades, is that there are a few personalized Spartan 300 boxes floating around. These were box sets that were signed off and numbered "1 out of 1" for specific individuals prior to the original release of the white box set. Whether these White Box Sets are actually part of the "Spartan 300" is not really known. As far as I can tell, there are few of the original Trolls who claim to have Spartan 300's lower than number 10, but it seems like some of these personalized Spartan 300s are actually part of the Spartan 300, just numbered differently.

When C&C released the original hardcover PHB, they had some sort of special deal where you could pay X amount more for the PHB and have a full, leather-bound PHB that would be personalized to your request with an interior B&W plate on the inside page 1. These special printings of this PHB came in 3 different leather colors (red, green, and black?). I have only ever seen a red copy though.

At GenCon 2009, TLG released a special softcover version of the Monsters & Treasure with color plates added to the interior. I think there were less than 50 of these printed.

At GenCon 2010, TLG released a special softcover version of the PHB that was dedicated to the Castle & Crusades Society. This book has errata included (a few very minor tweeks), and I think a full color plate with the Castles & Crusades Society heraldry included inside. This is the book that preceded the 4th printing (green) of the PHB.

TLG experimented with a number of limited edition style books, but I am not sure how rare they actually are. One of them was the combined PHB/M&T "flip book". PHB on one side, flip it over and the M&T was on the reverse. TLG Steve said that at least one example of this book exists with edges cut out in a saw-tooth pattern. I'm not sure if that copy ever made it out of the Troll Dens.

~O

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Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:42 pm
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Ulthal
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
Omote wrote:
TLG experimented with a number of limited edition style books, but I am not sure how rare they actually are. One of them was the combined PHB/M&T "flip book". PHB on one side, flip it over and the M&T was on the reverse. TLG Steve said that at least one example of this book exists with edges cut out in a saw-tooth pattern. I'm not sure if that copy ever made it out of the Troll Dens.

~O


I know John has the PHD/M&T flip book I see it come out a lot


Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:15 pm
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
I have 4 sets of the C&C minis, I think. I have 2 of the numbered Spartan 300, and Upper Works. Davis gave me a copy of Necropolis back in 2005. I have Hall of Many Panes, but not sure that's rare, per se.

I have a copy of Mordenkainen's Castle signed by Gary and Rob, and a number of other things that Gary was kind enough to sign.

I have a C&C character sheet from 2004 that Gary and Rob signed from when they killed all of us at Milwaukee Gamefest.

Not sure what else I have.

My understanding of the Spartan 300 are that there is a limited run of numbered white boxes, and a much smaller number of signed/numbered boxes - the first off the presses, so to speak. I forget at this point what the exact numbers were, but I'm pretty sure there aren't 300 signed AND numbered boxes out there. I believe I have at least one, maybe two in the single digits. I will check when I get home.

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Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:26 pm
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Battle Stag
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
There are certainly more than 300 White Box editions of C&C. There are the Spartan 300 numbered 1-300. There are some signed editions that are not numbered for sure, as I have one myself, but have no idea how rare they are, or were intended to be. I know the Trolls also put out some C&C White Boxes that were numbered 1/1. Those were special, signed editions of the White Box, that went out to a few supporters back in 2004. I have only seen one, but believe more exist.

Some other rare C&C items that fetch a rather unfathomable price include:

-Special softcover, C&C Society printings of the PHB and M&T that include a special society place.
-Softcover M&T that has color plates of various C&C art scattered throughout.
-C&C Society White Dice.
-Rune Lore Tile Set that went out to KS backers for the Rune Lore book. Rare, but I'm not sure if collectible. I think they are quite cool.

~O

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Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:21 pm
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
I have the first CKG shipped, or at least there's a note from Stephen inside saying so. Pretty cool.

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Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:51 am
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
Fiff, my Spartan 300 box is signed and numbered (#45). The Trolls should be able to answer this definitively, but from what I recall the entire run of the Spartan 300 was signed and numbered. The designer's copies I believe had their own numbering scheme. The white boxes themselves were a limited run of a thousand, and some purchasers of the "standard" white box had the Trolls sign their set after the fact.

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Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:32 pm
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
I'm pretty sure my white box was purchased at Troll Con in 09. Don't have it in front of me, but I'm guessing mine is a standard. When I first saw Steve and Todd in 2003 and 04, I'm not sure that I bought anything from them. Maybe Extraordinary Book of Names, but that may have also been purchased in 05 with my phb, m&t, and Crusader 2. I own very little of the OOP D20 stuff, but do have CZ:Dark Chateau, CZ:Yggsburgh, and Upper Works. I could have bought another Yggsburgh or five very cheaply at GenCon 05, but didn't. I wish I had spares of those three because I'd like to preserve them (so to speak) without damaging them in the process. Always hated that there were no pdf's of those three products. On the topic of valuation...there's actual finishing bid prices, or there are inflated by-it-nows on Ebay. Don't even get me started on the Amazon cut throats who try to get 5 times more out of some item, ONLY because it's out of print.


Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:54 pm
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
Traveller wrote:
Fiff, my Spartan 300 box is signed and numbered (#45). The Trolls should be able to answer this definitively, but from what I recall the entire run of the Spartan 300 was signed and numbered. The designer's copies I believe had their own numbering scheme. The white boxes themselves were a limited run of a thousand, and some purchasers of the "standard" white box had the Trolls sign their set after the fact.


I just remembered this thread, but I packed my boxed sets for our move today and forgot to check the numbers. :)

What you say has the ring of accuracy to it. It takes some time to remember the details from back then. There was a lot going on.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:32 pm
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Mogrl
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
I do not have the minis. I have tried to get them for a long time.


If signatures increase value to you, as they do not for many collectors, there are about 6 books with my autograph in the wild. I'd think this decreases pricing.

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Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:25 am
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Clang lives!
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
serleran wrote:
I do not have the minis. I have tried to get them for a long time.


If signatures increase value to you, as they do not for many collectors, there are about 6 books with my autograph in the wild. I'd think this decreases pricing.

I have one of those.

R-

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Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:17 pm
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Battle Stag
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
Rigon wrote:
serleran wrote:
I do not have the minis. I have tried to get them for a long time.


If signatures increase value to you, as they do not for many collectors, there are about 6 books with my autograph in the wild. I'd think this decreases pricing.

I have one of those.


As do I.

~O

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Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:59 pm
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Ungern

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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
serleran wrote:
If signatures increase value to you, as they do not for many collectors, there are about 6 books with my autograph in the wild. I'd think this decreases pricing.


It decreases value if it's personalized (has the recipient's name). If not, and has some form of evidence that the signature of the author is genuine, it will increase the value.


Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:46 pm
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Mogrl
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
mmbutter wrote:
serleran wrote:
If signatures increase value to you, as they do not for many collectors, there are about 6 books with my autograph in the wild. I'd think this decreases pricing.


It decreases value if it's personalized (has the recipient's name). If not, and has some form of evidence that the signature of the author is genuine, it will increase the value.



Actually, most (or many that I know, including the majority of Acaeum members) collectors of RPGs view any writing in a book to devalue it. There are some rare exceptions of course, like the signature (with provenance) of someone who rarely, if ever, autographed something. And others, like Gary Gygax which neither add nor diminish (because its so super common.)

Otherwise, its preference.

But yeah, in general, proof is required for any hope to increase.

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Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
I wish I had the miniatures. I had secretly hoped that one of the stretch goals might have been to bring those four models back.

Over the years, I've managed to accumulate a bunch of stuff and at one point I was grabbing up all the TLG material I could get... d20, pre-d20, and of course all the C&C and LA stuff. Having achieved and kept up with that goal, at some point a year or two ago, I ceased to 'care'. Harsh to say but I've become more of a mind that I'd rather keep a select amount of stuff than a boat load of it.

Hence my attempts to reduce it on and off the past few years. At one point, I had my only copy of the Upper Works box set up for sale at a rather tiny convention. I was selling it more than I paid for it but far less than what I had seen it go for. I was a bit surprised that it didn't sell and partially happy about it. It's a great boxed set which unfortunately will never see completion. In the end though, I don't think it matters what or how the Castle was exactly laid out. I have the signed copy of the Gazetteer which included the adventure leading to the Castle... a copy of the Castle Zagyg hardback and that one module that Kuntz wrote. I have parted with the Yggsburgh supplements (though I have them on PDF) and if I ever decide to sell the Upper Works (and find a buyer), part of me will be happy that it will go to someone who will ultimately play it as opposed to me who is content to have it on the shelf.

If I ever decide to do the 'castle', I will create it for my needs at the time.

M

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Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:24 am
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Cleric of Zagyg
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Post Re: Rarities Valuation
The miniatures were so excellent, I wished I had purchased all of them.

Steve sent me 1 dwarf on a large order some years ago. I used him in 2 of his games at CONS and in several others through the years. Unfortunately, the arm/ax broke off, but I should be able to fix him.

I purchased the C&C white box in Sept. 2004 from NKGs and it was supposed to be a Spartan. But, it arrived unsigned and the boss at NKG was sorry and willing to refund my cash, but I said no, its OK.

I joked with Steve years later that I probably purchased box 301 and we said that he and Davis should sign it and make it a real collector item. Never happened! ;)

Anyway, I did manage to acquire Spartan Box #300, which IMO really should be the top box as far as collectibility is concerned! :P

I also have 2 copies of CZ Upper Works.

:)

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Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:25 am
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