Should I buy this Castle Zagyg stuff or not?

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Stainless
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Should I buy this Castle Zagyg stuff or not?

Post by Stainless »

The following UK ebay site has the following package of Castle Zagyg stuff for 200 (that's US$ 321).
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ULTIMATE-CASTLE-Z ... 3efbac8511

Do you think it's worth that much money?

My understanding is that the rights to all the Castle Zagyg stuff went into the void with Gygax Games and may never see the light of day again, so maybe this is an excellent opportunity.
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Re: Should I buy this Castle Zagyg stuff or not?

Post by gideon_thorne »

Well, that depends if you have $300 to throw around or not? I don't expect that material to see the light of day again myself, so it might be worth the investment if your a collector?

I've seen just the Upper Works go on ebay for $250 or better. But that was a while ago.
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Post by Treebore »

If your a collector, probably. If your interested in it as gaming material, no, I wouldn't buy it. Its good, even great, but not that great.
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Sir Ironside
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Post by Sir Ironside »

Personally I wouldn't. Even though Gygax Games seem to be in a holding pattern, I'd guess that they will eventually re-issue all the Castle Zagyg stuff. Then those that paid ungodly amounts of money will be pissed they did.

Even if it never sees the light of day, just look at all the cool C&C stuff you could get for $300.00. Do, yourself a favour and start with a Subscription to The Crusader if you can get it or don't have it. Hell the Umbrage Boxed set will set you well on your way to much gaming goodness.
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Post by cuchulainkevin »

Treebore wrote:
If your a collector, probably. If your interested in it as gaming material, no, I wouldn't buy it. Its good, even great, but not that great.

What Tree said. You could probably find all the other books relatively cheap (Yggsburgh was going for $5 at Gen Con, for example, elsewhere. The only one among that lot that hasn't depretiated in value ($ wise, not quality wise) is the Upper Works, which as Tree indicated is very good, but also unlikely to see completion now.
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Post by K2h2m3 »

As much as I love this material I have to agree with the other posters. Also, unless you live in the UK you are probably going to have a hefty shipping fee. If you really must have the material you can but everything but CZ:UW rather cheaply as has already been posted. I've heard rumor that someone will be making a future anouncement over at DF in the near future to unload some copies of CZ:UW.

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Post by K2h2m3 »

Duh! I now see your location.

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Post by danbuter »

I wouldn't pay that much, but if you have extra cash, you might want it. It is a good set, and has enough info to keep an adventuring party busy for a year.
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Post by dunbruha »

Sir Ironside wrote:
Even though Gygax Games seem to be in a holding pattern, I'd guess that they will eventually re-issue all the Castle Zagyg stuff.

maybe... but under what system?? not C&C.

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Post by Hrolfgar »

In your profile you claim to be an improvished university lecturer, so I would say no. however I'm just improvished and I'm in no way qualified to give any advice regarding money.

I'm a big fan of Yggsburgh and CZ but the price is too high for gaming material IMO.

I really doubt Gygax Games reprints CZ ever.

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Post by cuchulainkevin »

If I understand correctly GG can't reprint Castle Zagyg: The Upper Works, written by Jeffrey P. Talanian and with art by Peter Bradley, published by TLG. I believe the presentation is equally the property of TLG and GG under the now revoked liscense.

GG can, and maybe will, release another version of Castle Zagyg that doesn't have Jeffery's writing and Peter's art. There would be significant changes obviously (that's assuming GG doesn't sign a new liscensing agreement with TLG- which seems unlikely).

Any new GG CZ material would be basically be a new product.

I do have the boxed set and I think it's pretty wicked cool, but I'm not sure it's worth $250. It might be to you. The market ultimately decides what it's worth [/i][/u]
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Post by moriarty777 »

If you are interested and planning to use some of the stuff, I'd say track the stuff down independantly.

The only item that would cause you some difficulties in locating would by the Upper Works box set. For those looking for Yggsburgh and the Eastmark on the cheap... consider the the Yggsburgh book and the Eastmark Gazetteer. What you'll get in the Gazetteer is an overview plus the adventure which which is *also* in the Upper Works Box set titled 'Mouths of Madness'. (There are some little differences between the two but not many).

Although they great, I would consider dropping the various accessories on the town itself. It was initally a multi-accessory series that was planned but only three ever saw print out of something like 20 or 24? Like the rest of the Yggsburgh / Castle project -- it would have been absolutelly wonderful to see it completed but that's never going to happen.

No... consider tracking down the Gazetteer, the Yggsburgh book, and maybe the one module written by Kuntz. These three items should be some of the easier items to track down and won't cost you as much as trying to get everything.

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Post by Sir Ironside »

dunbruha wrote:
maybe... but under what system?? not C&C.

I have no idea. It has been confirmed that GG was suppose to re-release things through Mongoose but, for whatever reason, that fell through. Did that mean it was going to be released with Runequest rules? Who knows... Mongoose also has the Flaming Cobra imprint that just prints books for other companies.

It does say that there was some movement by GG to actually get product out. But, it has been speculated that the Mrs. Gygax has been getting bad advice from other parties involved. I will speculate that part of that bad advice is putting a high value on things like Castle Zagyg, so when they go to negotiate their demands are way out of proportion to reality. This is an entire guess on my part, that has no factual base of any kind.

I also do not own or have ever seen Castle Zagyg or any of the Gygax stuff from TLG, so I cannot tell you how much rules are embedded into the books. If it is mostly fluff then would it really matter what rules system it comes out with?
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Post by Stainless »

Thanks for your feedback chaps. Looking at what's on offer on the US ebay site, this sale is relatively good value. However, I've decided not to bite. If I wasn't paying off a small loan for my loft conversion, I'd offer them 100 and see if that floats. But for now, I'll pass. After all, I'm unlikely to be running any C&C stuff for quite some time as my Tue. evening group has rolling GMs and campaigns and we have Delta Green CoC, Elric!, and ToC campaigns to continue stepping through. We might revisit Conan and Tekumel and I suspect one of our members will be pushing for Ars Magica. So it could be well over a year before there's some slack to fit in C&C. Then again, if I could get a Skype group together....

Still, my PH arrived today, so after I mark one more essay, I'll sit down to read and dream
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Post by Breakdaddy »

Stainless wrote:
Thanks for your feedback chaps. Looking at what's on offer on the US ebay site, this sale is relatively good value. However, I've decided not to bite. If I wasn't paying off a small loan for my loft conversion, I'd offer them 100 and see if that floats. But for now, I'll pass. After all, I'm unlikely to be running any C&C stuff for quite some time as my Tue. evening group has rolling GMs and campaigns and we have Delta Green CoC, Elric!, and ToC campaigns to continue stepping through. We might revisit Conan and Tekumel and I suspect one of our members will be pushing for Ars Magica. So it could be well over a year before there's some slack to fit in C&C. Then again, if I could get a Skype group together....

Still, my PH arrived today, so after I mark one more essay, I'll sit down to read and dream

There is a lot of SKYPE gaming going on with board members here. Maybe you could check with Treebore or Slimykuotoan and see if there is room in any of their SKYPE games?
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Post by JRT »

cuchulainkevin wrote:
If I understand correctly GG can't reprint Castle Zagyg: The Upper Works, written by Jeffrey P. Talanian and with art by Peter Bradley, published by TLG. I believe the presentation is equally the property of TLG and GG under the now revoked liscense.

Just to clarify:

Jeff's writing was work-for-hire and done as part of Trigee, so Trigee owns that and can reprint his writing. Peter and Jason got copyright of their art. The maps were copyright to Trigee since it's Gary's creation but they most likely have to get them redrawn.

The big thing about the writing was C&C was used under license from Troll Lord, so C&C stats would likely have to be replaced with something else.

So, basically, Gygax Games can reprint almost all of the content with little changes in a new edition, the biggest thing being different will be any game system changes (assuming TLG is not dealt with again), and the art.

But this still makes the TLG printing of the Upper Works a collector's item since it most likely will never be reprinted. So I am not surprised by the pricing.

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Post by serleran »

Some things, such as the things I developed along with Jeff, can be debated as to who owns them...

But, I would say that the Castle stuff is worth getting. At what cost depends on you, not the material.
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Post by tylermo »

I own it, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish for one of those less-than-official scans out there. Mainly just so I don't have to paw my actual copy so much. It's the comic book guy in me, I suppose. Not to ressurect old discussions, but....If Trigee doesn't go with 4E(which I find somewhat unlikely), or Pathfinder, do they really expect CasZag to be a real cash cow?

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Post by JRT »

Quote:
Some things, such as the things I developed along with Jeff, can be debated as to who owns them...

If it was unpublished stuff, then yes. I was specifically thinking about things published where people signed the forms/NDA and it was released with copyright statements. (And I was thinking Yggsburg/Upper Works, I never saw the other stuff).
Quote:
Trigee doesn't go with 4E(which I find somewhat unlikely), or Pathfinder, do they really expect CasZag to be a real cash cow?

They could go computer game, which could finance any pen and paper work. That was always one of Gary's dreams, to get a computer game done. He went back to pen and paper after not having much success with that--but he still wanted one someday. (DJ was supposed to have computer releases, and he worked several years on computer stuff).

But then again, one other point needs to be made. Profit is a very nebulous term--you could spend 80,000 dollars and make 80,500 dollars. None of us have access to the final Trigee accounting, and only a few people here to the TLG side of things.

If it's not brining in enough for Trigee to cover expenses, etc., or it doesn't meet quality issues, then maybe it would be better for the thing to be shut down and only printed in the future if it was worth it. Maybe it's a case of wanting to do it a certain way or not doing it at all.

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Post by gideon_thorne »

The product was being done to Gary's expectations. There was no logical or reasonable reason for it to be shut down. There wasn't even a financial one.
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Post by Deogolf »

JRT wrote:
They could go computer game, which could finance any pen and paper work. That was always one of Gary's dreams, to get a computer game done. He went back to pen and paper after not having much success with that--but he still wanted one someday. (DJ was supposed to have computer releases, and he worked several years on computer stuff).

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Post by Hrolfgar »

JRT wrote:
They could go computer game, which could finance any pen and paper work. That was always one of Gary's dreams, to get a computer game done. He went back to pen and paper after not having much success with that--but he still wanted one someday. (DJ was supposed to have computer releases, and he worked several years on computer stuff).

This even more unlikely than CZ returning to print in my opinion. The cost of developing computer game can easily exceed one million dollars.
tylermo wrote:
If Trigee doesn't go with 4E(which I find somewhat unlikely), or Pathfinder, do they really expect CasZag to be a real cash cow?

I doubt CZ maximized its dollar returns being that was only available for about 3 months.

Besides GG made an announcement:

"Hang tight folks we have something good in the works".

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