Hackmaster Basic

[treant_on_fire]

Just bought it as a pdf at DriveThru RPG.

Has anyone tried it?

[Ancalagon]

I played in a couple of demos at Origins and ran a demo with my local group. The game itself functioned fine but it is waaaaaaay too crunchy for my tastes. I might entertain the notion of playing it again with the right GM and mix of players but I've no plans on running another session.

With regard to in-print rpgs, I prefer the rules lite approach of C&C.

[Omote]

I wanted to love HackMaster Basic, but alas, its not really that basic.

-O

[Ancalagon]

Agreed. Definitely not a game you can pick up and start playing within 15 minutes.

[treant_on_fire]

Agreed. Definitely not a game you can pick up and start playing within 15 minutes.

Well okay, however... We already have C&C!

If Hackmaster was too similar, I'd have no interest in it!

Looking it over at first glance, there's many things I like about it. I think different campaigns have different needs.

The 'Basic' seems to have led a lot of people to believe it would be a simple system, when it was more meant in the sense that this was the basics of the game while the actual full books came out.

I completely respect the opinion of 'not rules light enough for me.' but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't their intention to create a rules-light game anyway!

For example, C&C is great to do a rules-light campaign (and there are times where I very much prefer that to anything else!). But if I want to actually progress my character in a way that's a bit less linear, something new that's unrelated to his class, the C&C character never would be able to. He'll always just be good at what he was good initially and that will never, ever change. I'm not saying that's a flaw in C&C mind you, because the charm of C&C is how streamlined it is. My Illusionist/Rogue Class and a Half concept is a character that I can't wait to play at some point! But like I've discussed before, different games and concepts have different needs. My Illusionist/Rogue works better in C&C because he can take his sweet time to level up without reaching a level cap so to speak. (In 3.5 for example, taking a level in one thing will mean you're not advancing in another). My swashbuckling Mage-Hunter works best with 3.5 because it has the character options to make such a character happen.

One thing I've noticed about this game is that it really encourages you to roll up a random character and then RP it. That's one thing I wouldn't always enjoy, but if I get into the game knowing that's how it'll be, I'd have no qualms with that. In that sense I can see it filling a certain niche and I do think it feels old-school in that aspect.

While I've never been an old-school player (I started playing in the early 2000s), I'd say this game is a mix of modern RPG tropes and old ones. Really not in the unifying sense that C&C has, mind you. I've always said that C&C is the game I'd GM if I had players from different editions at the table.

[Ancalagon]

Just bought it as a pdf at DriveThru RPG.

Has anyone tried it?

I guess I should've answered with just a 'Yes'.

[treant_on_fire]

Just bought it as a pdf at DriveThru RPG.

Has anyone tried it?

I guess I should've answered with just a 'Yes'.

LOL

Sorry, I expected some discussions about the system, like its merits and its flaws. I'll readily admit my opening post wasn't specific, so that's my bad. I'll be more careful with that next time.

It's just that on my side, I already knew it was a crunchy game. When you read about it on the web site, they announce it as such! So it seemed odd to me that the only comments were 'It's crunchy therefore I have nothing more to say on it!'

But again, I'll admit I didn't make it clear on the opening post that I was looking to actually discuss the system.

[magick3six]

I missed out on all the hackmaster demos last year at GaryCon III. This year I was determined to get into one at IV.

Well, the wife and I did. 2 hours later when we were 'sorta' finishing our characters, we started. Honestly we almost didn't get passed the character creation. I'd suggest using pre gens for any demos of this system, so if people like the way it plays, they might be able to deal with that part on their own time.

Once we played it took a while to get used to the initiative continuing and having to keep track of when you go next in the ever going combat. Seemed more 'realistic' in ways, but didn't sit well with us.

Again, might have been the aftermath of the character creation, but we received free hackmaster basic books for playing in the demo, and have never opened them again, or thought nicely enough about our intro to the system to.

-Scott

[Sir Ironside]

A long time ago I was interested in getting Hackmaster first edition. The things I heard about it were good and a "funny" D&D sounded like something I would like. I put it off, even when my store put them up for 50% off I still didn't get them. Then I heard of the new edition that was coming out so I thought I'd wait for that. Then the crunch. It turned me off completely. I know Kenzer Co. said that they were going to go in a different direction, but this was a total 180. Didn't buy it then, definitely won't buy it now, C&C has taken that niche and with my game collector over it is easy to just stick to a couple of games, so a lot don't make the cut anymore including Hackmaster 1st edition, even though you can get it on the cheap.

On a side note: I was uber exited about Aces & Eights. I liked the modular idea but any gunfights/fist fights took forever even though their innovative rules were interesting I discovered I didn't want my fights broken up into seconds.

Ah well. Hopefully Boothill will get its Kickstarter reboot, that would be the best bagel with cream cheese.

[GoOrange]

Too crunch for me. Lots of cool ideas, but the sum of all the small changes was too great compared to a traditional D20 game. The roll for attack and roll for defense and reroll if either is a crit or fumble leads to some drawn out die rolling sequences to resolve a simple attack.

I don't care much for the philosophy of generate a random character and role play him. Sure, you can customize to a large degree, but you pay a hefty character point penalty for doing so.

Chargen in general is way too random. Two abilities feed off and modify each other (charisma and comeliness I believe). I rolled a character with poor results in these two, they lowered each other further and the end result was a hefty penalty to ALL DIE ROLLS the character made. So basically, an unfun character and a waste of 20 minutes.

It's a cool game and with a lot of great attributes, but it's aimed at a type of game and gamer that I'm not. It's old school dungeon hack, gritty combat with complex rules, and that's not what I'm looking for.

Also, the fans are rabid and quick to blindly shoot down any criticism of the game that pop up on various forums. Very off-putting.

[concobar]

Also, the fans are rabid and quick to blindly shoot down any criticism of the game that pop up on various forums. Very off-putting.

Pretty much true of all game forums.

Tree used to run this game but havent seen him about in a bit.