Dragon Warriors

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:48 pm

As a C&C fan, I imagine that a number of people here (especially those of UK, Commonwealth or European residence) may also be fond of similar RPGs.

One of those was Dragon Warriors. Dragon Warriors was a surprisingly prolific fantasy RPG that introduced many young people to RPGing (almost as many as D&D in my area). Dragon Warriors is structured very similar to C&C and basic D&D with its light and fun ruleset. Dragon Warriors has the most superb tone and setting.

Anyway, I found out the other day that Dragon Warriors is making a return through Magnum Opus (the guy behind Hoghead Publishing). I am very excited. The rules have been collated but not significantly updated and the new artwork is simply stunning.

Anyone here have fond memories of this RPG?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:53 pm

It is still on my list of games to get, seeing as it is primarily an European / UK game, getting it in the States tends to be rather difficult. Much like Das Schwarze Auge (1st edition -- not the translated, crapfest that was released here) or the Spanish version of Aquelarre. But, if it is released again, it should prove easier to find, though that might make earlier editions more costly, and with shipping... almost not worth it.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:59 pm

Here are the four cover pictures revealed so far. They set the mood of the game and its setting of Legend perfectly.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:02 pm

The art is awesome.

I have absolutely no knowledge about the game. Going by the cover previews I'm guessing its kinda like a mythic earth though?

Evokes that feel anyways.

Might have to keep an eye on this.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:02 pm

serleran wrote:
It is still on my list of games to get, seeing as it is primarily an European / UK game, getting it in the States tends to be rather difficult. Much like Das Schwarze Auge (1st edition -- not the translated, crapfest that was released here) or the Spanish version of Aquelarre. But, if it is released again, it should prove easier to find, though that might make earlier editions more costly, and with shipping... almost not worth it.

Dragon Warriors is easy to get compared to Bloodsword, a solo gamebook series set in the same world.

Given that the new books will cover all the old material with some great artists and cartographers, I think it would be a great way to get into DW. Plus DW books are all over 20 years old now and even well looked after ones struggle given the smaller format.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:09 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
The art is awesome.

I have absolutely no knowledge about the game. Going by the cover previews I'm guessing its kinda like a mythic earth though?

Evokes that feel anyways.

Might have to keep an eye on this.

Dragon Warriors 101
Rules

- The rule system is 1d20 roll under one of 5 attributes Strength, Reflexes, Psychic Talent, Intelligence and Looks (measured from 3-18). Most things are left to DM discretion like old skool D&D.

- It has 7 classes being Knight, Barbarian, Sorcerer, Mystic, Assassin, Elementalist and Warlock.

- Combat is 1d20 roll under your Attack less your target's Defence. Damage is essentially HP. The armour mechanic is liked by many as it provides an all or nothing defence (not damage reduction or defence bonus).

- Magic is magic points or in the case of Mystic a Fatigue roll.
Setting

- The world of Legend is pseudo historical. The writers really knew their medieval history and created a world full of intrigue, superstition and fun based on it.

- The setting is very evocative. Many of the critters are more true IMO to how they are presented in medieval superstition. Forests are dark place full of fey dangers.

- The adventures are reasonably straight forward and are great quality. They ooze atmoshpere above and beyond the Fighting Fantasy and old OD&D modules they harken back to.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:12 pm

Definitely going to check this out.

Thanks for the heads up.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:19 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Definitely going to check this out.

Thanks for the heads up.

Some example of DW appeal from the covers alone:

1. The iconic 4 PCs are a Knight, Barbarian, Sorcerer and Mystic. No thief or cleric (the Mystic is close to a cleric)
2. The world is fantasy adventure but with an element of grim reality. The Knight taking on the dragon isn't leaping into the dragon's flame heroically. He is bracing himself against it whilst his companions ambush the dragon from the side.

3. Old things are dangerous and best left untouched unless you want to be stabbed.

4. The forests watch you and relish in your gruesome demise.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:26 pm

I've saw the original books and it was a game I could have gotten into if I hadn't discovered C&C now or AD&D in the past. However i will be watching this. BTW do you have a link to the publisher and what are the price points on the books? DW's appeal back in the day was having a full set of books rather cheaply.
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:31 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
I've saw the original books and it was a game I could have gotten into if I hadn't discovered C&C now or AD&D in the past. However i will be watching this. BTW do you have a link to the publisher and what are the price points on the books? DW's appeal back in the day was having a full set of books rather cheaply.

In 1986, the convenient novel size and low price definitely added to their attraction as an introductory RPG. They sat right next to Lone Wolf and Fighting Fantasy. I wouldn't say it was it's only appeal though as the rules, art, and writing were all very good.

Magnum Opus Press is publisher (www.magnumopuspress.com). They are printing and distributing the books via Mongoose's Flaming Cobra (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/ ... blisher=11).

The Corebook is 256 pages, hard cover and priced at $40.

The Bestiary is 96 pages, soft cover and priced at $25.

Sleeping Gods is 106 pages, soft cover and priced at $25.

Elven Crystals and Prince of Darkness have yet to be confirmed. I imagine that they will be 64-72 pages, soft cover and priced at $20.

dachda · Post by **dachda** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:54 pm

Skywalker wrote:

Quote:
Setting

- The world of Legend is pseudo historical. The writers really knew their medieval history and created a world full of intrigue, superstition and fun based on it.

- The setting is very evocative. Many of the critters are more true IMO to how they are presented in medieval superstition. Forests are dark place full of fey dangers.

Like this setting idea very much. Have been slowly working on somethng similar for my C&C players. Is the setting separate from the players handbook as Aihrde is from C&C PHB, or is it intrinstically part of the player's handbook? I guess what I mean is, would I be able to use the DW setting but use C&C rules my players already know?

P.S. the artwork is fantastic! who is/are the artist/s?
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:01 am

dachda wrote:
Like this setting idea very much. Have been slowly working on somethng similar for my C&C players. Is the setting separate from the players handbook as Aihrde is from C&C PHB, or is it intrinstically part of the player's handbook? I guess what I mean is, would I be able to use the DW setting but use C&C rules my players already know?

P.S. the artwork is fantastic! who is/are the artist/s?

The artist is Jon Hodgson. He is also doing the lion's share of the interior art too. There are 4 other artists involved, two of which I know and are also excellent (one does Legend of the 5 Ring cover art). Andy Law is the cartographer (he has done recent WFRP and A Song of Fire and Ice maps). His maps are pretty awesome:

The setting used to be contained seperately in Book 6, as well as flavoured through the adventures. It will now be contained in the new Corebook. As such, it won't be physically seperate.

However, you should have no issues with using the DW setting with C&C. In fact, you should be able to use much of the DW game stats for C&C conversions given the similarities.

dachda · Post by **dachda** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:13 am

Skywalker wrote:
The artist is Jon Hodgson. He is also doing the lion's share of the interior art too. There are 4 other artists involved, two of which I know and are also excellent (one does Legend of the 5 Ring cover art). Andy Law is the cartographer (he has done recent WFRP and A Song of Fire and Ice maps). His maps are pretty awaesome.

The setting used to be contained seperately in Book 6, as well as flavoured through the adventures. It will now be contained in the new Corebook. As such, it won't be physically seperate.

However, you should have no issues with using the DW setting with C&C. In fact, you should be able to use much of the DW game stats for C&C conversions given the similarities.

Nice, might have to put this one on the wish list then. Thanks for the info. Let us know when it is released, if you have a chance.
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:16 am

dachda wrote:
Nice, might have to put this one on the wish list then. Thanks for the info. Let us know when it is released, if you have a chance.

Corebook is due first week in November.

Bestiary is due in November.

Sleeping Gods is due in December.

Elven Crystals and Prince of Darkness should be due in Jan to Mar 09.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:23 am

I am now turned off to the re-release. I do not like digital maps / art in my RPGs unless it is a post-modern game / system / setting. It makes everything look far too "clean" for my tastes. I greatly prefer a rustic, nearly unfinished, look or hand-drawn... but, that's me. The first art is OK, but also not to my particular tastes. Oh well. I will stick to hunting down the originals.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:40 am

serleran wrote:
I am now turned off to the re-release. I do not like digital maps / art in my RPGs unless it is a post-modern game / system / setting. It makes everything look far too "clean" for my tastes. I greatly prefer a rustic, nearly unfinished, look or hand-drawn... but, that's me. The first art is OK, but also not to my particular tastes. Oh well. I will stick to hunting down the originals.

Each to their own (especially when it comes to art) DW has a very UK sensibility that is mirrored in Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf and WFRP. It differs from a lot of the art seen in US RPGs in the same period.

I find Jon H's artwork to be simply superb at capturing both the original old skool flavour and setting's atmosphere. IMO it is close to the very vision of DW fI get from the text.

I also find Andy Laws' maps to have an almost painted quality. They are generally detailed and quite gritty in tone. On saying that, I note that the books are B&W and attention has been, like with the cover, to preserve the feeling of the original DW maps. For example, I don't expect any combat grids will be used. Most DW maps were on a much larger scale.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 am

I'm a fan of Dragon Warriors, and am looking forward to seeing what others think about the game before I pick up a copy. To be honest, when I was looking at the Mongoose product page for DW, I was confused at how the game was going to be expanded to 296 pages? DW is not that complicated, and the Bestiary is not even in the core book? What the heck is taking up all that space?

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Jerm · Post by **Jerm** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:09 am

Wow, the maps look awesome. I'll absolutely follow this up.

While I don't like the grid they got, they look really how I would like maps to be

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:58 am

I love DW. I was on a quest to get all the DW books on ebay one year and I'm happy to say mission accomplished.

Took me a little longer to get the Bloodsword books, especially the last one :p ... (at a reasonable price) which I eventually did.

And I'm very excited to see DW back in print!
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Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:30 pm

Looks interesting. May have to look into getting it when it comes out. The setting sounds very promising.
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:38 pm

Jerm wrote:
Wow, the maps look awesome. I'll absolutely follow this up.

While I don't like the grid they got, they look really how I would like maps to be

I point out that the maps posted are from A Song of Fire and Ice RPG, though they are done by the same person. DW maps will be B&W.

Also, this comment on maps in DW from the developer:

Quote:
Stand by for a whole new set of maps in the new rulebook. The attitude we used to take with Warhammer FRP, and which seem like it ought to work equally well for Legend, was that the game is set centuries before the advent of accurate mapping techniques, and therefore all the maps of the game-world should be taken as flawed. This means that if you want to draw your own you can claim it's as accurate as any of the others. It also makes a useful adventure-seed for groups that rely too heavily on written information.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:42 pm

Omote wrote:
To be honest, when I was looking at the Mongoose product page for DW, I was confused at how the game was going to be expanded to 296 pages? DW is not that complicated, and the Bestiary is not even in the core book? What the heck is taking up all that space?

The Corebook is 256 pages.

Looking at my books, taking out adventures, monsters and blank pages you get:

Book One - 98 pages (Kinght/Barbarian, Equipment, Combat, XP, Travelling, GMing)

Book Two - 102 pages (Sorcerer/Mystics, Treasure, Magic Items)

Book Three - 6 pages (Morale, Curses, Diseases)

Book Four - 41 pages (Assassins, Stealth, High Level PCs)

Book Five - 55 pages (Elementalist, Madness)

Book Six - 218 pages (Warlocks, Setting)

That's a total of 520 pages of material. The old pages are smaller but they have almost no margin and they are densely packed. So if you equate two of the old pages to roughly one new page you get 260 pages, which seems bang on the money. FWIW the 2 to 1 ratio is also roughly consistent with the Bestiary with 160 pages becoming 96 pages.

Plus you probably can add in new Skills of the Mighty for all classes, more Elementalist spells to balance them out etc.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:49 pm

Skywalker, as the product descriptions go it seems treasures will be covered in the Bestiary. Though, the Bestiary treasures are probably just in addition to what could be presented in the core rules. I assume from the old books that the setting will make up the majority of the core rule book. But still, it just seems like a big book. I guess we'll see.

-O
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:09 am

Omote wrote:
Skywalker, as the product descriptions go it seems treasures will be comvered in the Bestiary. Though, the Bestiary treasures are probably just in addition to what could be presented in the core rules. I assume from the old books that the setting will make up the majority of the core rule book. But still, it just seems like a big book. I guess we'll see.

-O

My guess, given that the material will be mostly unchanged from the originals, is that the main book will be 40% setting and 60% rules.

As for the Bestiary description, it may be possible that treasure and magic items are in the Bestiary. My guess is that the treasure and magic items will be in the corebook but the charts relating to encounter building that include treasure (such as were contained in the original books) will be in the Bestiary.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:30 am

I preordered both on amazon.ca !!
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:50 am

First photos of the Corebook are up at http://www.flickr.com/photos/62889100@N ... 713611971/.

Serlean will happy that the maps are hand drawn in black and white lines

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:14 pm

Yes, the book does look nice. Thanks for the linkage.

-O
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cinderblock · Post by **cinderblock** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:55 am

Looks like a killer product. Must be added to the shelf.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:44 pm

First reports of people receiving books has been made. Just Mongoose preorders at this stage. Should mean they hit retail in the next week.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:17 am

I was tempted to run a Play by Post Dragon Warriors gig based on the adventures from the old books.
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