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Do I need M&T to run Umbrage Saga 
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Skobbit

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Post Do I need M&T to run Umbrage Saga
I'd get M&T but for some reason its all sold out in uk webshops. I want to order from a european webshop because I live in belgium and don't want to pay any import fees.

Anyway so what if I buy just the PHB and Umbrage Saga? Would that work? What about xp awarding? Are the stat blocks provided in the adventures?

Does anyone maybe know where I could get M&T. Any other books that you'd recommend together with the Umbrage Saga Boxed set?


Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:07 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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The umbrage saga has the monster stats within the individual modules. You dont need the M&T at all to run it. As for experience point rewards, I'd just estimate them and proceed with the adventure. You should figure on getting the PCs to level 8 or so by the last adventure in the Umbrage Saga book, so just extrapolate from there. By the time you get to slag heap (the third adventure in the book), a group of four PCs should be level 2-3. By the time you get to The Wicked Cauldron (the very next adventure), youll want a 4 player group to have at least one or two PCs at level 4, etc.

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Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:30 pm
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Post Re: Do I need M&T to run Umbrage Saga
Quote:
kird wrote:
Any other books that you'd recommend together with the Umbrage Saga Boxed set?



The Umbrage Saga is pretty complete as is. Though, if you are interested in the setting information beyond what is available in that box set, think about picking up the After Winter's Dark folio. This is the complete setting that the Umbrage Saga takes place in, and it's generally pretty inexpensive.

Welcome to the Crusade!

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Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:14 pm
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Skobbit

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Awesome, I'll simply start off with the phb and the boxed set then.

Omote: It seems after winters dark is also sold out in uk webshops (admittedly I only know of IG UK and Leisure Games)

I have to say I'm really happy someone over at RPGdotNet advised this system and box set to me. I think it's just what our group wants.


Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:50 am
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Mogrl

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The way the modules are written, using the "literary style" makes the monster book not essential to play with, though I would still consider getting it so you can modify the adventure with other things should you desire it (which I always do) and having the other critters give a good idea of what is already available. But, it boils down to choice and easy obtainment.
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:14 am
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Skobbit

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I guess an option is getting the pdf of the monster book and printing it out myself... Is the art Black and white? Big enough art? The resolution will be worse on my laser printer I'm guessing. How many pages?

It's just that ordering from the US is a bit expensive in Belgium. I'll have to pay a flat fee of 10 euros at the very least not to mention the shipping fees for getting it here in a short amount of time.


Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:46 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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The M&T is what, about 128 pages I think. Its black and white. The art is sizable enough to see clearly if you print it out on your laser printer. Again, its not necessary to own it at this moment, but at some point I think you'll want it to craft your own C&C adventures and have access to the XP charts and magical equipment therein.

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Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:51 pm
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Well Kird, not sure if you like the .pdf option, but most of the TLG stuff is available at the online sellers. Hopefully that can tide you over until Leisure Games gets a restock.

We see a lot of talk about Leisure Games carrying TLG games. I wish TLG could somehow get a nice supply going to that outlet without them running out every few months. Contact Leisure games and tell 'em what you need. Hopefully that can get the ball rolling.

Not too sure about IG UK though.

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Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:47 pm
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Skobbit

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I ordered the PHB and the Umbrage Saga! Hopefully I get it soon. Thanks for the replies folks. I'll try to remember this thread when I get the delivery and post my thoughts.


Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:23 pm
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Very nice! Let us know what you think.

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Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:42 pm
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Master of the Kobold Raiders

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There's also this thread over in the rules forum with the link to Serleran's compilation of experience values of the various monsters:
http://www.freeyabb.com/trolllordgames/ ... llordgames
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:14 pm
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Skobbit

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Ok so I received it a couple of days ago and have prepared A0: a rising knight for tonights session.

I've got 6 players playing. All of my regular players (my gf and 4 friends) and one new player. She is the girlfriend of one of the players. I've met her before though so I know she'll at least be somewhat cool about it even if she isn't into rpging. She has never played yet so we'll have to see what happens.

I convinced my friend to bring his gf on the basis that C&C is pretty seminal D&D fare with an easy mechanic. He's a big fan of old school dungeoneering so he was sold immediately. Also the umbrage saga looks like a really decent set of modules. I've wanted to get another girl in the group for a while now because a group of guys with one girl can be a bit lame for her sometimes.

I'm a bit worried that the group might be too big but on the other hand the advantage will be that the group will definitely be rounded out with all kinds of classes. With just 4 people you can sometimes get a class pick thats a bit forced like a healer or a rogue.

Wait, I was going to talk about what I thought about the PHB and the Umbrage Saga :p Well so far what I've read is really cool. 3rd edition D&D was my first rpg and I've never been able to play it properly because I always got lost in what rules to use and which ones not. C&C fixes this nicely. I do get the feeling here and there that I'm paying for material that I basically already own but it's all good considered I love conciceness of it all. Also C&C isn't exactly super expensive. I love that theres just a big list of equipment.

I got M&T in pdf form and printed it out and I was suprised how much the stat blocks look like the old advanced dungeons and dragons monster manual. This is a book that belonged to my girlfriends dad. It was the only D&D book he owned strangely. He bought it on a whim I think. It's stored together with a bunch of my other books now though so I wonder if it's worth it to get it out of storage to use with C&C? Because I did notice there are no stats for mind flayers or beholders. I'm guessing this is because of copyright issues, right? I only briefly looked through it though, maybe I'm wrong and they are in there.


Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:37 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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C&C is great for big groups b/c the siege engine is so easy to use.

The girls in your group may like this book: Confessios of a part time sorceress
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Part- ... 494&sr=1-1

I hear it's cute

Sadly, you won't find the Mind Flayer oR Beholder in official C&C because of the wording of the Open Gaming License makes them 'off limits'. (I forget the legalese). The Prismal Eye is like a beholder stand-in (I think it's stronger, though) and I made a stab at a Mind Flayer replacement in the Domesday Book volume 2.4, a monster called the Culcithoid.

What's the Domesday book you ask? a fan-made supplement published by teh C&C society. Check it out here:
http://cncsociety.org/domesdaybook.html

Lots of goodies available from the society if you didn't know;
http://cncsociety.org/index.html
http://www.trolllord.com/cnc/society_login.html

Oh yeah, I think you'll all like the Umbrage saga.

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Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:35 am
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Hlobane Orc

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Having downloaded and read each of them as they were released; I highly recommend all of the Doomsday Books for excellent reading and gaming materials.

LOADS of great stuff for free.... nowhere to go but forward from that start.

Six Players with one PC each is not an overload for running the A Series at all (Umbrage Saga),

As for using other PRG materials with C&C I do that a lot.

Not the rules so much as the supplemental materials, such as the TSR Monster Manuals 1 and 2, Fiend Folio, and other items.

Your 3rd Edition books might also be used, partly at least.


Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:33 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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A bit of advice if I may, kird: the default answer when someone tries to do something in C&C is "YES" and let it happen or assign a SIEGE roll with appropriate challenge level. Sometimes its easy to get stuck in the D&D 3.x/4e mindset where you want to say "no, unless you have the skill you cant" or "no, you dont have that feat so you cant do that". With C&C anything that could reasonably be attempted by the character should be allowed or checked with a SIEGE roll. I find that when a new Castle Keeper starts doing this, their game opens up immensely to imaginative gaming. You might even encourage this by having NPCs or monsters occasionally surprise them by doing something they didnt think of.

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Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:57 pm
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Quote:
Breakdaddy wrote:
the default answer when someone tries to do something in C&C is "YES" and let it happen or assign a SIEGE roll with appropriate challenge level. Sometimes its easy to get stuck in the D&D 3.x/4e mindset where you want to say "no, unless you have the skill you cant" or "no, you dont have that feat so you cant do that". With C&C anything that could reasonably be attempted by the character should be allowed or checked with a SIEGE roll. I find that when a new Castle Keeper starts doing this, their game opens up immensely to imaginative gaming. You might even encourage this by having NPCs or monsters occasionally surprise them by doing something they didnt think of.



Words of wisdom, no doubt in that.

Enjoy your game Kird!

~O
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:18 pm
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Quote:
Omote wrote:
Words of wisdom, no doubt in that.

Enjoy your game Kird!

~O



+1 this is what I LOVE about C&C!

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Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:36 am
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Skobbit

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Ok so i've run my first session. It didn't exactly go smooth because with only one book and 6 people that need to make a character it took us a long while to get started. Especially because we had a wizard, a cleric and an illusionist that needed to pick spells. The barbarian player didn't even got through character generation because he was cranky and tired and he ended up sleeping through most of the session. The guy bringing his girlfriend along was a mistake. It was my idea though so I can't really blame him. He just should have used a little more judgment and declined my invitation. I'm afraid she just isn't into fantasy at all.

When they met the pixie queen which was pretty much foreshadowed by a worshipper of Wenafar (they didn't believe her), the gf of that player said "If I'm an elf, why do you guys believe there can't be Faeries in the woods?" That made me crack up. She was so right. It sort of dawned to me that if I could convince a whole group with just "normal" people, it would be way more fun to GM. Most of my group has learned of roleplaying through computer games and I start to realise this is extremely toxic to playstyle.

Both me and my girlfriend concluded at the end of the night that we would have been better off just playing the adventure between the two of us. Roleplaying in Malforten went incredibly difficult. Players had no idea what to do. I thought I made it very easy because I had made a map and numbered the houses where they could meet the inhabitants that had a write up. In the end I grew frustrated and I just told them "go explore the countryside a bit, you'll probably find something of interest." I had them meet the pixie queen then who directed them to the tower and then I had the lammasu direct them to the dungeon...

I do have a gameplay question regarding A0: a rising knight. Is it normal that the NPCs in the town are such high level and have so much loot? There is an NPC knight that is willing to part with a +2 lance! At lvl 1 that seems alot no? I'm glad my players aren't in the habit of killing NPCs they meet because they could win a lot more treasure in the town compared to the dungeon.

I have a feeling I'm missing some old school knowledge regarding this issue.


Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:35 am
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Wow, sorry to hear. Perhaps you can learn from this session, and invite a few of the people back to play in a smaller session. Perhaps start them out on and adventure right at the front door of a dungeon. Tell them the background story that got them to the dungeon, and go from there. It's easier for new fantasy roleplayers to expore a dungeon first and than learn how to roleplay in towns later.

Best,

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Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:45 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Hmmm.

Frustrating. Sorry to hear it.

LIke O said, someimtes dropping newbs into a dungeon is a good start, especially if they're accustomed to computer games. the sheer volume of options can be overwhelming for players who aren't used to such a non-linear way of playing.

and it's all the individuals too, some folks don't dig RP heavy town chatting sessions and just want to kill things. it's just a matter of style.

As CK/DM, the best thing that worked for me was clearly communicationg w/ the players... don't be afraid to just ask them what they want in a game and tweak it to match,

oh, and maybe use pregens. I was always fond of random assassins to spice the game up if it got slow too, give the barbarian something to chop in half, if the PCs fight off a group of baddies in teh town square, this give you an excuse to have the relevant NPCs walk up to them and start chatting... and feeding them the story.... a crutch, sure, but sometimes to get the game moving you have to bring the water to the horse.

(maybe not the best analogy)

but keep at it and don't sweat it. it's a game, it's fun. have fun.

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Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:05 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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As far as killing townies goes: a healthy dose of common sense need be applied in this situation. If the characters wish to become known murderers and hunted felons this is a great place to get that new career as wanted men started. Not to mention the fact that as soon as one townie is attacked and starts yelling for help, the party will soon be ovverrun by townies. Even the lowliest characters can exert strength in numbers and ovverrun a party, bringing them to the ground. There'd be a nice pitchfork party after that and the characters would be the guests of honor. Even if they attacked one or two townies and "got away with it" as soon as an interested cleric of sufficient level used a minor divination the party would be wanted and have to flee to lands afar in order to escape justice.

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Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:59 pm
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Quote:
kird wrote:
I do have a gameplay question regarding A0: a rising knight. Is it normal that the NPCs in the town are such high level and have so much loot? There is an NPC knight that is willing to part with a +2 lance! At lvl 1 that seems alot no? I'm glad my players aren't in the habit of killing NPCs they meet because they could win a lot more treasure in the town compared to the dungeon.

I have a feeling I'm missing some old school knowledge regarding this issue.



I just wrapped that module up and found it a little difficult. Sounds like you're getting through it though. Sorry your group is so uneven, but you can work that out. I've sort of learned over the years that my group doesn't do well with "here's a map, where do you want to go?" Better to give them the tour through NPCs, have them point to each other's places. Obvious and cliche things shouldn't necessarily be avoided; they leverage familiarity.

The lance is too powerful in terms of bonus and xp if you allow it. The knight won't relinquish it to just any character that waltzes in; it should require some role-playing. I allowed it to my knight as we had a very small party that needed the edge. My knight player is aware of the silliness of using a lance as a primary weapon on foot, so uses it sparingly, mostly just while mounted. So if you establish that early on, you have a weapon only useful outdoors, which could be handy if Baleon Nakt is 1+ days travel from Malforten, lots of random outdoor encounters.

I think the NPCs are higher level for a couple of reasons: 1) to dissuade PCs from killing them! 2) so they can still be worth talking to as you level; they can be lifelong allies in the area. 3) so they can cast spells that players can't and make themselves useful. It's not a problem for my group, but they know there are stiff penalties for careless, evil play; they don't kill friendly NPCs. Your group of 6 may be a match for an NPC in his home, but it's a small place; a yell could bring the others.

My 2 cents on old school: I believe in more "modern" games the tendency is to accommodate the players whims if the rules support them. In olden times, swift and decisive retribution from the DM was the norm if players willfully tried to destroy the game (killing helpful NPCs, killing each other), and the rules were on the DMs side, not the players.

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Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:25 pm
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Skobbit

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Thanks for the replies guys, my last post was mostly to vent. Nothing that happened was unexpected really if I would have thought it through before hand. The diversity of players' preferred playstyles in my group is just impossible to cater for. One of these days I'm going to have to face facts and cut some people out.

Another thing I noticed in the adventure while calculating xp. The pixies in the first adventure are very low powered compared to the ones in the M&T. Is this intentional? I'm assuming they are worth less xp then as well because the value of the special abilities doesn't get take into account?


Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:44 am
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