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Using 3E monsters with "as is" ability scores 
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Skobbit

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:00 am
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Post Using 3E monsters with "as is" ability scores
Years ago in a Dragon Magazine article one of the writers listed what he believed should be the strength modifiers for 1E AD&D monsters. At the time he noted that a fighter can typically do more raw damage then a hill giant, which seemed a bit silly. 2E tried to do this later on by randomly adding strength damage to some monsters (giants, hags, ect). It was haphazard at best.

Having moved from 3E to C&C I have been trying to decide on what to do about monsters. Since PCs get HP and bonuses to hit and damage from ability scores it seems only right that monsters be able to get a similar bonus. 3E monsters are very close in HD to 2E critters but with the added bonus of the ability scores thrown in. A hill giant is a dangerous foe to a party and not easily killed since they have almost 3x the HP vs the 1E version.

As PCs advance in level they rack up equipment which only adds to their combat bonuses which soon outstrip monsters by a considerable margin. Fighters can easily have a 22-25 AC and +12 to hit by 8th level making hitting them even more difficult. Also monster AC is somewhat lower in older editions then in 3E, making hitting even a dragon not a big issue for fighters at this point

I know I have jumped around a bit but I would like some opinions. Can one use 3E monsters (minus feats/skills) with C&C characters (even when using the old 1E modules) or is that just over the top? In the first module of Against the Giants one room has over 2 dozen giants alone plus Ogres. This would be almost 3000 hp to hack through in 3E.

So some options, keeping in mind I will be running some classic modules plus 3E modules from Necromancer games:

Use 3E monsters as is (I am leaning towards this, but, is that insane?)

Use 3E monsters minus the stat bonuses

Use 3E monsters with only some stat bonuses

Use older AD&D monsters


Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:17 am
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Hlobane Orc

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:00 am
Posts: 106
Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
Use 3E monsters as is (I am leaning towards this, but, is that insane?)

I recomend using the 3E monsters as is. Just allow for better character ability scores beyound the 3d6 method.


Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:36 pm
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Mogrl
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
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Location: Elfrida, AZ
Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
I don't do "as is" unless I also think it makes sense for the scale of C&C. Generally, if you lower their score to lower their bonus modifier by 1 it works better with C&C. The biggest thing to get rid of is their bonus Hit Points, most importantly if it takes the creature above what their maximum HP is without the bonus HP from CON.

Still you should look at how tough it makes the monster in comparison to the PC's. If you think its too powerful, weaken them. If you were wrong you can always make them more powerful the next time you use them.

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Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:09 am
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Mogrl
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:00 am
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Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
Unless you want to use the mostly garbage stuff from MM2+, or a template, use the C&C version of a d20 creature. Classic Monsters "added" a lot of them, I understand. Otherwise, no. Do not use them as written. The numbers often have to be cut in half, or more, just to be on par with those of C&C. There are guidelines out there for it. Google Fu is a buddy...

Link.

I do not fully endorse the above, but it works well enough for play.

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Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:39 pm
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Global Moderator
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Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
My theory is that not all monsters of a given type need to be "generic" because if it's too easy for players to predict what monsters can do then much of the fun erodes away.

At my game table I typically keep my OD&D books, Rules Cyclopedia, and C&C Monsters & Treasures handy and grab monsters from them at random. I sometimes have my 2E Monsterous Manual handy because of the cool artwork, and once in a while my 3E/Pathfinder monster books as well.

I mostly grab HD and AC numbers, as well as damage inflicted. If this week's troll or orc is easier or harder than last week's, that's okay with me. Just keep in mind that later editions tend to be nastier because of the power creep of their rules system.

Bottom line -- if you grab a 3E monster, just use it "as is." That's my vote.

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Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:29 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm
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Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
finarvyn wrote:
Bottom line -- if you grab a 3E monster, just use it "as is." That's my vote.


Yeah, if you as a GM understand the power of a given monster, should be no problem.

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Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:53 pm
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Unkbartig

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:00 am
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Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
I wish C&C had used monster stats, as i think they're a good tool that doesn't add much more complexity.

I think it's fair to use 3E monsters as-is. However, for some monsters this dramatically increases their potential damage and/or hit points. So plan your encounters accordingly.

-Fizz


Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:11 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
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Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:33 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Using 3E monsters with
wrong thread post. :oops:

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Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:33 pm
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