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Worm module 
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Mist Elf

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Post Worm module
In the worm module there is a map on page five that I assume is the map of a Tomb. The problem is, the map doesn't seem to match the description of the Tomb on page 8. Some of it does but I just want to verify which side is the entrance and which room contains the "stairwell going deeper into the earch". I am under the impression the right side of the map is where the entrance is but I do not see three corridors on the map. I do not understand which room the stairwell is in; there are a couple of them that could match. Anyway...if anyone can clarify please do. Thanks.


Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:52 pm
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Worm module
An error with a map in a TLG adventure? Well par for the course I'm afraid. I frequently have to redraw the maps in adventures to make them match the text. Hopefully Grey Elf will provide you an answer. I love the Troll products and have bought all of 'em, (as far as I know), but this is an consistent and on-going problem. Unfortunately, for some reason, I think I"m the only one on the forums who brings it up. Glad you spotted the error and asked about it. Hopefully Grey Elf will be able to clarify the map.


azcromntic wrote:
In the worm module there is a map on page five that I assume is the map of a Tomb. The problem is, the map doesn't seem to match the description of the Tomb on page 8. Some of it does but I just want to verify which side is the entrance and which room contains the "stairwell going deeper into the earch". I am under the impression the right side of the map is where the entrance is but I do not see three corridors on the map. I do not understand which room the stairwell is in; there are a couple of them that could match. Anyway...if anyone can clarify please do. Thanks.


Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Worm module
Alas, I can't clarify because the map doesn't really match what I turned in, either. The artist took liberties with the example I sent and was more concerned with presentation than accuracy, which resulted in those liberties unfortunately not matching my text. As was pointed out, this sadly happens more often than it should.

Honestly, though, you don't really need the map. The description of how the tomb goes is pretty straightforward (it runs in a straight line, after all) and there's not much need for players to map out a dungeon. My advice is just to go with the descriptions, translate the map however you like, and just run with it. Over-reliance on the module as written is the bane of a good GM.

The truth is, it's rare that you'll see a true "dungeon crawl" style module requiring a detailed map from me. That's because I'm a HORRIBLE cartographer and I know that artists tend to embellish rather than stick to text as written. I prefer my modules to be able to be run on description alone, without the necessity for mapping. I also try to create modules that can be run as written in a few hours, or which have a lot of hooks to expand them for greater play. One of our fans has stretched the core book and Day of the Worm modules alone into a 2-year campaign at this point!

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Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:32 pm
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Mist Elf

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Post Re: Worm module
That sounds lame, invalidating and preposterous.

My folly was to allow myself to form some kind of mental allegiance with the Troll Lord (TL) products after reading some reviews, then playing some of the adventures and playing some of the competitors products. I'm continually reminded though that things are what they are and apparently this Worm module and some of the other TL products ARE 2nd rate. I had expected better.

True; we don't really "need" a map. Likewise we don't really "need" dice, rule books and modules but most of us use them and it wouldn't be the same game otherwise. If you are so convinced that customers don't need maps then why did you add the map in the first place? You could have just added some text that said "you'll have to draw your own map". Actually, after having read the module the text you would need to add to match the rest of the incorrect text in module is "youll have to drawdraw your own ma".

What you are suggesting is that some other players, myself included, should abandon their desire for an accurate product from TL just because you or some other person are reluctant to enhance cartography skills, collaborate with the artist, utilize a spell checker or put forth an effort to make the product as good as it can be regardless of the price.

How dismissive and disappointing.


Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:45 pm
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Unkbartig
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Post Re: Worm module
I'm sorry you feel that way, especially over a product that cost roughly $5. I'm sure that it was never the wish of the Trolls or Grey Elf to create a product that has made you call into question your mental allegiance with a company that has produced products that are centered on what truly matters creating a set of products that allow people to come together and have fun playing a game. I personally feel that the trolls channel the initial wishes, wants of the original TSR, even though they may not have the most professional appearance but luckily enough most of the troll's customers are able to look past that and enjoy the core product.

I'm also sorry you chose to voice your opinions in such a manner that allows the trolls almost no chance of responding by voicing you opinions on a public forum which they visit seldom and when they do its typically to make an announcement about an upcoming event or product not handle the complaints of a single consumer buried in a forum that they may never look at it due to time constraints. That same single consumer which may not understand how involve the process is to create this product. There is a good chance that the Trolls, Grey Elf, and the artist never sat in the same room at the same time to give the product one last look through.

I do hope that you are able to find products from the Trolls that are up to your standard, I have a shelf full of their products and yes some maps are bad and yes some of the modules are out of order however very rarely do I not spend a good few hours reading through the module before trying to run it that way I know ahead of time anything I need to take into account.


Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:19 pm
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Post Re: Worm module
azcromntic wrote:
That sounds lame, invalidating and preposterous.

My folly was to allow myself to form some kind of mental allegiance with the Troll Lord (TL) products after reading some reviews, then playing some of the adventures and playing some of the competitors products. I'm continually reminded though that things are what they are and apparently this Worm module and some of the other TL products ARE 2nd rate. I had expected better.

True; we don't really "need" a map. Likewise we don't really "need" dice, rule books and modules but most of us use them and it wouldn't be the same game otherwise. If you are so convinced that customers don't need maps then why did you add the map in the first place? You could have just added some text that said "you'll have to draw your own map". Actually, after having read the module the text you would need to add to match the rest of the incorrect text in module is "youll have to drawdraw your own ma".

What you are suggesting is that some other players, myself included, should abandon their desire for an accurate product from TL just because you or some other person are reluctant to enhance cartography skills, collaborate with the artist, utilize a spell checker or put forth an effort to make the product as good as it can be regardless of the price.

How dismissive and disappointing.


Wow. That's not at all what I'm suggesting, and my intent was neither to be dismissive nor invalidate your question, nor suggest you settle for second rate product. I would never deliberately or willingly treat any fan of Amazing Adventures, Castles & Crusades or TLG in such a manner. The fans, after all, are why we're here.

That being said, your accusations are far off point. First, I'm a writer, not a cartographer or artist. Second, I included detailed descriptions of the areas in question. Third, sometimes (often, in fact) typos and errors creep in during layout and have nothing at all to do with the use of a spell checker on the original manuscript (which incidentally, I always use, along with grammar checkers). Now, are there errata in our products? Absolutely. There is not a gaming company OUT there without mistakes and errata. Not even WotC. Overall, we've been pretty good about catching and correcting errata over the past several years at TLG; this particular module has never come up in question before right now, and I'll submit the found errata (listed in the errata thread at the top of the page) to Pete for correction in PDFs and future printings as we always do.

In this particular module, the area in question is literally point a to b to c to d in a straight line. There literally is no map needed; the one that was put in there was just a basic reference/suggestion. My explanation above was just that: an explanation, not an excuse, not a rationalization. I do, in fact, only rarely write modules where maps are necessary because I know I am not a good cartographer. The map in question wasn't created by me and I don't have an explanation why it doesn't match the text. Truth be told, though I don't have the module in front of me at the moment, while I remember it not matching my text I don't honestly remember it being all that off from the textual descriptions as to be unusable. I will make an effort to pull it out, take a look, and clarify what I can.

I'm sincerely sorry that you feel so betrayed by this adventure module. It would seem, however, there's not much I can do to change your mind on this, so I'll just have to offer my apologies on your disappointment and say we hope to do better for you in the future.

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Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:57 pm
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Post Re: Worm module
azcromntic wrote:
In the worm module there is a map on page five that I assume is the map of a Tomb. The problem is, the map doesn't seem to match the description of the Tomb on page 8. Some of it does but I just want to verify which side is the entrance and which room contains the "stairwell going deeper into the earch". I am under the impression the right side of the map is where the entrance is but I do not see three corridors on the map. I do not understand which room the stairwell is in; there are a couple of them that could match. Anyway...if anyone can clarify please do. Thanks.


Okay, I dug this module out in hopes I can help you work this out. Bear with me as it's been about 3 years since I wrote (or read) it. You are correct that it doesn't remotely match what I wrote.

Here's the reference that I sent for the map, which fits the text MUCH better and should match what is in the scenario. I've no idea why such liberties were taken with the design while not working to match the text descriptions. Like I said, this is the first anyone has pointed out the issue.

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregy ... esvit3.jpg

While we are on the subject, here's the original reference I sent for the airplane hangar.

http://www.wbdg.org/images/media_img.ph ... =643&h=475

I sincerely hope this helps.

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Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:49 pm
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Worm module
The Grey Elf wrote:
azcromntic wrote:
In the worm module there is a map on page five that I assume is the map of a Tomb. The problem is, the map doesn't seem to match the description of the Tomb on page 8. Some of it does but I just want to verify which side is the entrance and which room contains the "stairwell going deeper into the earch". I am under the impression the right side of the map is where the entrance is but I do not see three corridors on the map. I do not understand which room the stairwell is in; there are a couple of them that could match. Anyway...if anyone can clarify please do. Thanks.


Okay, I dug this module out in hopes I can help you work this out. Bear with me as it's been about 3 years since I wrote (or read) it. You are correct that it doesn't remotely match what I wrote.

Here's the reference that I sent for the map, which fits the text MUCH better and should match what is in the scenario. I've no idea why such liberties were taken with the design while not working to match the text descriptions. Like I said, this is the first anyone has pointed out the issue.

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregy ... esvit3.jpg

While we are on the subject, here's the original reference I sent for the airplane hangar.

http://www.wbdg.org/images/media_img.ph ... =643&h=475

I sincerely hope this helps.


Thanks for posting those. You must have done so way back when, as I found I already had them stored in my AA folder on my computer. What is really annoying is that the artist not only changed the maps so they are near useless, but actually made them uglier than the ones you just posted. And with no room numbers, or one word descriptors like your linked maps. At least if the changes were to create a work of art like Doug Kovac's DCC maps I could understand why the artist took such liberties with the maps you submitted, but they are ugly AND useless. And this is a frequent issue in all the TLG adventures this artist has done the cartography for, the Trolls need to hire a proper cartographer. This issue is continually occurring in TLG products.


Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:46 am
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Red Cap
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Post Re: Worm module
Here's one you can use:

Image


Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:55 am
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Grey Elf Troll
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Post Re: Worm module
WOW, Nice!!!

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Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:30 am
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Worm module
Thanks. What program did you create that in?


Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:06 am
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Red Cap
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Post Re: Worm module
GIMP


Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:13 am
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Red Cap
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Post Re: Worm module
I disliked a few things about the original; I have updated the map. If you grabbed a copy prior to this post, go back and get it again.


Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:08 am
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Post Re: Worm module
mmbutter wrote:
I disliked a few things about the original; I have updated the map. If you grabbed a copy prior to this post, go back and get it again.


I've included all the found errata for Day of the Worm in the Errata thread at the top of the page. I've also linked to both my original reference map and this truly awesome one you cooked up for us. Thanks again; that's great work!

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Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:25 pm
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Mist Elf

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Post Re: Worm module
I am revisiting my rant after a LONG period off. I think I was upset more due to the fact that as of now I have spent $300 on TL products in a couple different large purchases and every time I get a group to play they pick it apart and insult the products (of which I happen to like the system, art, and creative content). One player even turned red in the face and quit a C&C game.

I felt embarrassed to like the game, I felt like I had thrown my money away. I'm posting to say that I apologize for blowing up on you. In spite of the problems I mentioned I really enjoy the AA game and my kids and I had a lot of fun playing it. I continue to use the C&C and AA products in hopes of enjoying them like I had envisioned when I bought them.

It's hard to find people, for reasons I do not know, who will look at anything but D&D 5th or Pathfinder. Yet during the games of D&D 5th and Pathfinder I've tried everyone has their chin on their fist with boredom from people discussing rules, talking about this feat or the next class their going to add rather than playing the actual game. When I get a chance to play C&C or AA it is quick and everyone seems to be engaged in the action. Yes, there are the discussions about errata and the rules but I don't get why more people don't play C&C or AA just for the action factor.

Anyway...that map rocks! You should hire that person. (wishing I had the time to do up a map like that). And thank you for taking the time to take out your copy, look it over and do something about the issue.


Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:34 am
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Post Re: Worm module
azcromntic wrote:
I am revisiting my rant after a LONG period off. I think I was upset more due to the fact that as of now I have spent $300 on TL products in a couple different large purchases and every time I get a group to play they pick it apart and insult the products (of which I happen to like the system, art, and creative content). One player even turned red in the face and quit a C&C game.

I felt embarrassed to like the game, I felt like I had thrown my money away. I'm posting to say that I apologize for blowing up on you. In spite of the problems I mentioned I really enjoy the AA game and my kids and I had a lot of fun playing it. I continue to use the C&C and AA products in hopes of enjoying them like I had envisioned when I bought them.

It's hard to find people, for reasons I do not know, who will look at anything but D&D 5th or Pathfinder. Yet during the games of D&D 5th and Pathfinder I've tried everyone has their chin on their fist with boredom from people discussing rules, talking about this feat or the next class their going to add rather than playing the actual game. When I get a chance to play C&C or AA it is quick and everyone seems to be engaged in the action. Yes, there are the discussions about errata and the rules but I don't get why more people don't play C&C or AA just for the action factor.

Anyway...that map rocks! You should hire that person. (wishing I had the time to do up a map like that). And thank you for taking the time to take out your copy, look it over and do something about the issue.


No worries. We all have those days. And yes, Pathfinder and D&D are major competition for us and it's an ongoing struggle to get people to check out other games. I like to think that overall the errata in AA (and C&C in the more recent publications) are fairly minor and we try to be good about staying on top of them and posting corrections when we find them.

I'm glad you like the game--that, after all, is the reason we do what we do. :).

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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:51 pm
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