TLG 8125 Classic Monsters (Available)

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tylermo
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by tylermo »

Jealous already. Keep telling us about this book.

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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The stat summary tables in the back for CM, M&T, and M&ToA are worth the price alone.

More jealous? :)

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MormonYoYoMan
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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And the art - OH, that art! It puts anything "monsterous" that TSR, WotC, and Paizo have used for similar publications. The ONLY advantage the aforementioned Big Guns had/have is color. And y'know what? These CM illos are still more pleasing to the eyes.

Of course, now I want a portfolio of hobbit adventurers! (There's an oxymoron for you!)
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kreider204
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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I know it's a matter of taste - and probably nostalgia - but I'll still a sucker for good black-and-white pencil or pen-and-ink illustrations.

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by Dead Horse »

I think the b&w art feels more like text book.
Plus the newer manga style art in wotc books turns me off.

love the book... want the dead tree!
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MormonYoYoMan
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Dead Horse wrote:the newer manga style art in wotc books turns me off.
If ever there was a phrase with which we all should agree, this is it!
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kreider204
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Manga art is just fine if it's appropriate to the game - e.g., Exalted - but it definitely doesn't put me in mind of D&D, that's for sure.

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Dead Horse wrote: Plus the newer manga style art in wotc books turns me off.
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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I like what I've read so far. Is this the final revision before print? If not, I have run into a few items for errata.
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by tylermo »

Yep. Still jealous. As for manga, I don't question the talent of the artists. I just don't care for that style personally.

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moriarty777
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by moriarty777 »

Peter wrote:The OGL declaration is screwed up again.
pages 4-85, “Monsters”; pages 86-127, “Treasure”
LOL -- At least the monsters up to the letter 'P' are OGC. ;)

In all seriousness though, hopefully this was something that was caught before it was sent to the printers. If not, it shouldn't be overly difficult to rectify since I am assuming the intent was to make all the monster entries OGC.

As for the Tome of Horrors attributions... well, I guess that's a whole other issue. I really don't think the Giant Crab is a problem and something like the Huecuva is originally derived from folklore. However, I would have thought that other things (the Flailsnail for example) would have had some sort of citation in the OGL.

Maybe it was just an oversight and the used the old OGL from the M&T as a place holder and then just added the last entry in section 15 ? I just don't know. ;)

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Arduin wrote:
Dead Horse wrote: Plus the newer manga style art in wotc books turns me off.
X100

Meeee tooooo!

Of course, now I want a portfolio of hobbit adventurers! (There's an oxymoron for you!)
Hay now, hobbits are my favorite "non-human" race! I believe they are the most misunderstood and underutilized race!!!! Give them a chance some time and you just might enjoy yourself ;)
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MormonYoYoMan
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by MormonYoYoMan »

Another hobbit-fan! Good to see you, though there may be as many hobbit wannabees after the next Jackson movie - as there were elf wannabees after the previous Jackson movie(s).
Hobbits are GREAT fun to play! Very resourceful, with an outlook on life which is unique but close to my heart.
A conversation from a game in 1983, in which a hobbit (DragonQuest rules) was rescued after months on a deserted island.

Captain: How long have you been stranded here?
Hobbit: 853 meals.
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Peter
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by Peter »

As for the Tome of Horrors attributions... well, I guess that's a whole other issue. I really don't think the Giant Crab is a problem and something like the Huecuva is originally derived from folklore. However, I would have thought that other things (the Flailsnail for example) would have had some sort of citation in the OGL.

Maybe it was just an oversight and the used the old OGL from the M&T as a place holder and then just added the last entry in section 15 ? I just don't know.
The same OGL biff happened in M&T of Aihrde.

Some of them may be generic enough to use without citation, but a majority of them are not. Also there is some that are neither OGC, from myth, or generic. Which I would be very interested to know what the legal loophole is to allow use of them, so I can use them myself :P Specifically the Wemic.

SRD
Achaierai, Azer, Badger (Ratel), Behir, Centipede (Giant), Cloaker, Derro, Demilich, Duergar, Mephit (Fire), Mephit (Steam), Merrow, Retriever, Shadow Mastiff, Svirfneblin, Tarrasque, Thoqqua, Vargouille

Tome of Horrors
Adherer, Aerial Servant, Al-Mi’raj, Algoid, Ant Lion, Apparition, Ascomoid, Atomie, Aurumvorax, Babbler, Banderlog, Basilisk (Greater), Behemoth, Blindheim, Blood Hawk, Boalisk, Boggart, Bonesnapper, Buckawn, Carbuncle, Caryatid Columns, Caterwaul, Cave Fisher, Clubnek, Coffer Corpse, Cooshee, Crab (Giant), Crabman, Crypt Thing, Dakon, Dark Creeper, Dark Stalker, Death Dog, Death Knight, Devil Dog, Dire Corby, Disenchanter, Doombat, Dragonfish, Dragonnel, Drelb, Dustdigger, Ear Seeker, Eblis, Executioner’s Hood, Eye Killer, Firedrake, Firesnake, Flail Snail, Flind, Flumph, Forlarren, Frost Men, Gorbel, Gorgimera, Gorilla Bear, Hangman’s Tree, Haunt, Hippocampus, Hoar Fox, Hound of Ill Omen, Huecuva, Iron Cobra, Jaculi, Kamadan, Kech, Korred, Land Lamprey, Lava Children, Lurker, Magnesium Spirit, Mantari, Margoyle, Mihstu, Mongrelmen, Muckdweller, Mudman, Necrophidius, Nereid, Nilbog, Ogrillon, Pech, Phantom Stalker, Piercer, Poltergeist, Quickling, Rock Reptile, Russet Mold, Sandling, Sandman, Scarecrow, Screaming Devilkin, Skeletal Warrior, Skulk, Spriggan, Squealer, Stone Guardian, Stun Jelly, Taer, Thessalhydra, Throat Leech, Vegepygmy, Volt, Wind Walker, Witherstench, Yellow Musk Creeper, Yeti, Zombie (Yellow Musk)

Neither (Myth)
Afanc, Agathion, Alkonost,Baku, Barbegazi, Berbalang, Boggle, Boobrie, Catoblepas, Draugr, Firbolg (with a space between fir and bolg), Fomorians, Lycanthrope (Werefox), Lycanthrope (Werehound), Lycanthrope (Wereshark), Lycanthrope (Weresnake), Lycanthrope (Werespider), Ophidian, Penanggalan, Peryton, Phoenix, Revenant, Selkie, Shade, Skeleton (Animal), Zombie (Monster)

Neither (Non-OGC or Public Domain, Some Possibly generic enough for use, Some may be renames or originals)
Aleax, Assassin Bug, Avia, Bat (Fire), Bloodworm, Booka, Bowler, Cadaver Caterpillar, Crimson Death, Cyclopskin, Denzelian, Dune Stalker, Enveloper, Ethos Muse, Eye of Fear and Flame, Galeb Duhr, Gibberling, Gig, Grell, Grim, Grouzal (Prince of Evil Earth Creatures), Grue, Hook Horror, Human, Giant, Imorph, Insectus, Jermlaine, Jumkin (Prince of Evil Air Creatures), Lamia Noble, Lesser Elemental (Ash), Lesser Elemental (Dust), Lesser Elemental (Ice), Lesser Elemental (Lightning), Lesser Elemental (Magma), Lesser Elemental (Mud), Lesser Elemental (Radiance), Lesser Elemental (Salt), Lesser Elemental (Smoke), Lesser Elemental (Steam), Lesser Elemental (Vacuum), Lizard King, Luck Eater, Magman, Masher, Meazel, Mephit (Lava), Mephit (Smoke), Myconid, Needlemen, Nefarian, Nonafel, Norker, Obliviax, Osquip, Palhyd (Prince of Evil Water Creatures), Pernicon, Pyrotrice, Quaggoth, Qullan, Roog-Ar (Prince of Evil Fire Creatures), Sheet Phantom, Shelkerow, Shocker, Sons of Rhealth, Tasloi, Tirapheg, Tween, Wemic, Xvart
Peter's Guide to Everything Else (WIP)
Ruin (WIP)
5e Indexes
AD&D Indexes
BECMI Indexes

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Troll Lord
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Peter wrote:Neither (Non-OGC or Public Domain, Some Possibly generic enough for use, Some may be renames or originals)
Aleax, Assassin Bug, Avia, Bat (Fire), Bloodworm, Booka, Bowler, Cadaver Caterpillar, Crimson Death, Cyclopskin, Denzelian, Dune Stalker, Enveloper, Ethos Muse, Eye of Fear and Flame, Galeb Duhr, Gibberling, Gig, Grell, Grim, Grouzal (Prince of Evil Earth Creatures), Grue, Hook Horror, Human, Giant, Imorph, Insectus, Jermlaine, Jumkin (Prince of Evil Air Creatures), Lamia Noble, Lesser Elemental (Ash), Lesser Elemental (Dust), Lesser Elemental (Ice), Lesser Elemental (Lightning), Lesser Elemental (Magma), Lesser Elemental (Mud), Lesser Elemental (Radiance), Lesser Elemental (Salt), Lesser Elemental (Smoke), Lesser Elemental (Steam), Lesser Elemental (Vacuum), Lizard King, Luck Eater, Magman, Masher, Meazel, Mephit (Lava), Mephit (Smoke), Myconid, Needlemen, Nefarian, Nonafel, Norker, Obliviax, Osquip, Palhyd (Prince of Evil Water Creatures), Pernicon, Pyrotrice, Quaggoth, Qullan, Roog-Ar (Prince of Evil Fire Creatures), Sheet Phantom, Shelkerow, Shocker, Sons of Rhealth, Tasloi, Tirapheg, Tween, Wemic, Xvart
Holy Carolina!!! Peter you deserve a giant thank you because you just saved us a gigantic headache. Many of these monsters had name changes that didn't get put in the book...on a quick glance it looks like some of the original text got put in the book. What a jumbled mess.

Looks like Todd has some cross referencing to do and we have to find the original text! :evil:

Thank you most kindly for catching this before it goes to full print (I have the proofs in front of me right now). I had set this book aside and out of my mind...won't be doing that again.

I hate working with anything in the SRD. Onward to Aihrde! ;)

Thanks dude!
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MormonYoYoMan
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by MormonYoYoMan »

It looks as if releasing a PDF to us is as wise as having a team of blind testers and proofreaders. Give yourselves a pat on the back, everyone who's been catching fixes, especially Peter!
Hope this hasn't discouraged the trolls... :(
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moriarty777
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by moriarty777 »

Peter wrote:The same OGL biff happened in M&T of Aihrde.

Some of them may be generic enough to use without citation, but a majority of them are not. Also there is some that are neither OGC, from myth, or generic. Which I would be very interested to know what the legal loophole is to allow use of them, so I can use them myself :P Specifically the Wemic.
LOL -- Saw Steve's follow-up post and it looks like we got our answer. Guess this means we won't be seeing our print copies for a few more weeks. ;)

As for the M&ToA, I didn't really realize the OGL blip in it either. I'll have to check that out later tonight. Thanks for the heads up!

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by Rhuvein »

moriarty777 wrote:Guess this means we won't be seeing our print copies for a few more weeks. ;)
Indeed.

Not a problemo for me . . . "get the book right" is important and I can wait.

Good catch, Peter!! :D
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moriarty777
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by moriarty777 »

Just noticed something which begs the question:

Why is there an entry for the Cloaker? Don't get me wrong -- I think it's an awesome critter but, the thing is, we already have an entry for the Cloaker in the M&T. When you compare the two together, you see that they aren't identical but they *are* similar. They even both listed in the index of the Classic Monsters book!

:)

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Discouraged? Not really discouraged so much as, a bit miffed. In my younger days something would have broke. I have aged and tired, so I just scratched my beard and decided to buy a new hat.

It has finalized a decision about a potential product line that had been floating about the office for a month or more.

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by gideon_thorne »

moriarty777 wrote:Just noticed something which begs the question:

Why is there an entry for the Cloaker? Don't get me wrong -- I think it's an awesome critter but, the thing is, we already have an entry for the Cloaker in the M&T. When you compare the two together, you see that they aren't identical but they *are* similar. They even both listed in the index of the Classic Monsters book!

:)

M
Oh, probably the same reason why there's an entry for the Margoyle. Casey used the same critter in his 2nd Crater of Umeshti module. Just one of those little oversights that slip through.

Maybe we'll just make it into a greater Cloaker of Invisibility or some thing? It can be worn by duck shaped super heroes so they can be the terror that flaps in the night? And yes, that was random. Coffee has strange effects on me. :lol:
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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MormonYoYoMan wrote: Captain: How long have you been stranded here?
Hobbit: 853 meals.
Priceless!
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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cleaverthepit wrote:Discouraged? Not really discouraged so much as, a bit miffed. In my younger days something would have broke. I have aged and tired, so I just scratched my beard and decided to buy a new hat.
How Dwarven of you.... :D
cleaverthepit wrote: It has finalized a decision about a potential product line that had been floating about the office for a month or more.
Davis
Um... do tell?


BTW: Great catch / work, Peter!
Question: Sheet Phantom... doesn't count as folklore? As a Kid I saw "sheet ghosts" long before seeing them in D&D, Like in A Charlie Brown Halloween, old cartoons, etc. Or do you mean the Name specifically?
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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MormonYoYoMan wrote:It looks as if releasing a PDF to us is as wise as having a team of blind testers and proofreaders. Give yourselves a pat on the back, everyone who's been catching fixes, especially Peter!
Hope this hasn't discouraged the trolls... :(
I think it is a good model for future releases. Get the pre-ordered PDF's out. Get the feedback and then finalize Dead Tree. Save the company money and the customers get a better product.
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by Dead Horse »

I revise my earlier estimate..

Coming June of 2013, Classic Monsters!
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Arduin
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Dead Horse wrote:I revise my earlier estimate..

Coming June of 2013, Classic Monsters!
????
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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MormonYoYoMan wrote:It looks as if releasing a PDF to us is as wise as having a team of blind testers and proofreaders. Give yourselves a pat on the back, everyone who's been catching fixes, especially Peter!
Hope this hasn't discouraged the trolls... :(
Just irritating. Its one of the reasons we shy away from projects that are heavily reliant on the SRD or any other companies' material. Its just one more step for us to wrestle with and as all know we are already pressed for time. Too often the projects around here take back seat to the multitude of distractions that crop up around here from tax crap, sales reports, contracts, pricing, conventions, and 400 million other things. Traditionally I have to manage all this and the content as well. I get a bit snow-blind from the paper work at times.

Of course, this is what Todd is here, so that some of that mess can be re-directed to him.

The real frustrating thing for me is that I want/need to be working on Rune Lore, not Classic Monsters. But there ya have it! Play the hand your dealt and all that. 8-)

Onward and forward!

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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

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Dead Horse wrote:I revise my earlier estimate..

Coming June of 2013, Classic Monsters!
Not hardly. The fixes were already made. They just have to be put in the actual book. The hold up is going to be the art, Bradley did the art off the material he was given, so some of those pictures have to be redrawn, but I'll clear the deck and we'll go to print with less art if it means any significant (read, more than a week) hold up.

The real kicker is Walsworth, this knocks out of their schedule. We were set for a March 21 ship date, this will move that back some obviously.

Steve
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by JediOre »

I wanted to toss in my two cents worth regarding the Classic Monsters Manual, in case the critter hasn't gone to the press yet.

Regarding the index in the back of the book. This is an excellent idea, but one that, I think, could be improved by alphabetizing all the monsters in one listing and adding which tome they can be found in rather than having three lists, one for each tome.

Also, I think the badger is over the top, especially when you compare it to the, in my opinion very weak, wolverine. The wolverine is something that is feared by hunters, but I'm unaware of a badger being able to take down a wolverine! I wish you could reverse the stats on the two creatures.

2¢ worth.

Edit: You may want to think about including the monsters in Of Gods & Monsters in the index.
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Re: Classic Monsters The Manual

Post by Dead Horse »

Dont precieve my bad joke of release time to be anything more then blowing off steam. I want this book... but i want it right.

If art has to be redone. redo it. I want as much art in a monster book as possible.

I will also chime in on the index of stats.. Alphabitized is better then by book.
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