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C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing (Available) 
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing (Available)
Castles & Crusades
Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Product Type/Format & Price: 8.5 x 11 hardback, 144 pages; $24.99
Ordering Info: TLG 80105, ISBN 978-1-936822-42-3


BACK THIS PROJECT ON KICKSTARTER

With Iron Heel the World Grinds Away
Plunge into worlds of fantastic adventure where dragons lie and the undead stalk the shades of your mind’s imagines, where creatures of legend plunder wealth through the horror of their passage. Monsters grim and foul hold the ecstasy of gold and the renown of glory. Upon the backs of these stalk heroes of great might; those who take up sword and shield, who harness eldritch might, those who stalk the narrow corridors in search of sport and those who serve a purpose greater than all the others. Heroes. Freebooters. Mercenaries. Adventurers.

Beyond the comforts of home lie worlds of epic adventure.

A Game That is Yours to Command

Castles & Crusades is a fantasy role playing game with countless possibilities. The Players Handbook allows you take up the sword and shield, the staff or bow; to arm yourself as you desires and wander upon planes of your own imagining and plunder the wealth of adventure.

Designed for use with multiple players, Castles & Crusades puts you in charge of the adventure path. Included within are all the rules of play, how to get started in your very own role playing game, how to run the game and play in it.

It’s easy to learn attribute-based rules system allows players to choose among 13 archetypal character classes and 7 races to create their characters. Spells, equipment, fast-paced combat rules, and all essential information needed to play a game of Castles & Crusades is in this book.

Dice and Monsters & Treasure sold separately.

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Sat May 12, 2012 4:17 am
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
You sneaky dog! I got off of Facebook for just a bit, and you sprung the kickstarter on us. Lol. Is the cover the first one Peter worked on, or the second, more action-oriented cover you were wanting?


Sat May 12, 2012 5:10 am
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
tylermo wrote:
You sneaky dog! I got off of Facebook for just a bit, and you sprung the kickstarter on us. Lol. Is the cover the first one Peter worked on, or the second, more action-oriented cover you were wanting?



Will any of the rules be changed, clarified or re-written from the 4th printing? In other words if I have the 4th printing is there any reason for me to buy the 5th printing, other than simply supporting TLG?


Sat May 12, 2012 5:38 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
tylermo wrote:
You sneaky dog! I got off of Facebook for just a bit, and you sprung the kickstarter on us. Lol. Is the cover the first one Peter worked on, or the second, more action-oriented cover you were wanting?


Just for you my friend!! :lol: :lol:

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Sat May 12, 2012 6:57 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
dachda wrote:
tylermo wrote:
You sneaky dog! I got off of Facebook for just a bit, and you sprung the kickstarter on us. Lol. Is the cover the first one Peter worked on, or the second, more action-oriented cover you were wanting?



Will any of the rules be changed, clarified or re-written from the 4th printing? In other words if I have the 4th printing is there any reason for me to buy the 5th printing, other than simply supporting TLG?


Nope. No rules changes at all. I think we have to clarify the SR rule and are pondering the encumbrance. But your 4th printing will be good to go. No need to get the new book.

Trollzah!
Steve

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Sat May 12, 2012 6:58 am
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Btw, Stephen has said elsewhere that the cover shown on kickstarter is not the actual art for the 5th printing phb.


Sat May 12, 2012 1:59 pm
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Unkbartig
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Okay, just plopped my money down. I would like to suggest that the PDFs go out well in advance of the book going to the printers, just like with Classic Monsters - I think that allowed us fans to help catch a bunch of errata before any trees were killed unnecessarily. :)


Sat May 12, 2012 2:41 pm
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Beer Giant Jarl
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Just a quick point of clarification (and something you may want to make clearer on the Kickstarter page), this will only be full color if you hit $10k, right? If you hit the normal goal ($6k) it's not full-color, right?

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Sat May 12, 2012 3:05 pm
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
What happens if you don't hit 6K? Just a reprint of "ol' green"? I know. I'm not supposed to ask these sorts of questions. :lol:


Sat May 12, 2012 4:21 pm
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Will the rules for thrown liquids be included in the new phb, or continue to remain only on the gm's screen?


Sat May 12, 2012 4:22 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Thanks but I will pass...


Mon May 14, 2012 9:20 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
I have decided that this book will be full color regardless of the kickstarter outcome. I'm looking over Peter's work and it is just too cool. I've also seen the preliminary sketches for the cover. Not sure they are ready to post but that dragon bursting through the door is going to be damned cool!

Steve

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Wed May 16, 2012 3:44 am
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Ulthal
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Like there's a chance we won't meet the goals... :lol:

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Wed May 16, 2012 4:47 am
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Dragon bursting through the door? Cool. YoYoMan, we can only hope the goals will be met either way. On a side note, Pinnacle Entertainment hit approximately $11,500 in the first 4-5 hours of their kickstarter for a new setting Deadlands Noir. 1935 noir would seem a bit of a niche for rpg's, but not as much as I would have thought. Pinnacle doesn't typically do kickstarter, but I think they wanted to gauge interest in this one. Apparently, it was there. But, I digress. Can't wait to see the cover for phb 5th printing!


Wed May 16, 2012 6:13 am
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
It'd be nice if you could throw a picture of the briefcase up on Kickstarter.

TLG Kickstarter wrote:
I also had a nice talk with Tom Tullis from Fat Dragon Games this afternoon (check out his latest kickstarter project: Dragonshire) and we discussed setting some interlocking goals for PH and Dragonshire.

I see what you did there. ;)

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Wed May 16, 2012 10:58 am
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Beer Giant Jarl
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Troll Lord wrote:
I have decided that this book will be full color regardless of the kickstarter outcome. I'm looking over Peter's work and it is just too cool. I've also seen the preliminary sketches for the cover. Not sure they are ready to post but that dragon bursting through the door is going to be damned cool!

Steve


Just to clarify, is the Kickstarter the only way to get it in full-color?

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Wed May 16, 2012 12:31 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Frost wrote:
Troll Lord wrote:
I have decided that this book will be full color regardless of the kickstarter outcome. I'm looking over Peter's work and it is just too cool. I've also seen the preliminary sketches for the cover. Not sure they are ready to post but that dragon bursting through the door is going to be damned cool!

Steve


Just to clarify, is the Kickstarter the only way to get it in full-color?


The bold seems pretty clear. Not only will all 5th printing have colour, but it will have colour even if the Kickstarter doesn't reach its goal.

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Wed May 16, 2012 1:47 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Fair enough and I didn't mean to be obtuse. Just thinking that the since I have the goodies at the $40 level, it might make more sense for me to wait and get this version at regular price then.

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Frost wrote:
Fair enough and I didn't mean to be obtuse. Just thinking that the since I have the goodies at the $40 level, it might make more sense for me to wait and get this version at regular price then.


Frost,

We didn't put up an option for just getting the book as I saw no point in giving kickstarter money for a simple pre-order. We'll make them work for it. haha

The pre-order for the PH will come up on our own site very soon. Probably today or tomorrow.

Thanks,
Steve

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Thu May 17, 2012 4:31 pm
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Ulthal
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
MormonYoYoMan wrote:
Like there's a chance we won't meet the goals... :lol:


A week in and only slightly over 1/2 way there. I backed at the $40 level, but it occurs to me that people who just want to back (and receive) the book without the other goodies might want to see an "in between" option - something between $15 and $40, especial if they're backing a $25 book. A $25 or $30 option, say.

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Fri May 18, 2012 1:40 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
I think one problem is that there very "Not much new" factor is causing a lot of people to look at their 4th (and 3rd) printing PHBs and then decide to pass. The color will be cool, and I'm sure the book will look amazing, but the fact that the content will be essentially the same is likely working against it on Kickstarter.

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Fri May 18, 2012 3:33 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Watching the globe turn on the video, it made me think just how cool would it be to have a real globe of Airdhe. At the very least I could put it on the table, during gaming and pretend I'm a teacher in Airdhe. :D

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Fri May 18, 2012 4:09 pm
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Ulthal
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
...or it could be that people are waiting 'til first or end of the month to pledge. Though the money won't actually be taken until mid-June (unlike Indiegogo) there is still that human tendency...

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Fri May 18, 2012 5:09 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
redwullf wrote:
A week in and only slightly over 1/2 way there. I backed at the $40 level, but it occurs to me that people who just want to back (and receive) the book without the other goodies might want to see an "in between" option - something between $15 and $40, especial if they're backing a $25 book. A $25 or $30 option, say.


When it was first launched, I contacted Steve about these concerns. At $40, given that I have / don't need the Character Reference sheets and the FDG material plus adding an extra $10 for shipping to Canada made this an option that was just too expensive for me to justify. At the time, Steve answered he'd be throwing this up as a regular pre-order as well. He also indicated that the likely retail price for the finished product would be $30 as opposed to $25.

Of course, it's also full color so the price bump is a bit more justified.

M

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Fri May 18, 2012 5:34 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
CKDad wrote:
I think one problem is that there very "Not much new" factor is causing a lot of people to look at their 4th (and 3rd) printing PHBs and then decide to pass. The color will be cool, and I'm sure the book will look amazing, but the fact that the content will be essentially the same is likely working against it on Kickstarter.


Very good point. The only reason some people may grab these is to get it in color.

Actually, I'm not sure if I even like like the idea of this in color and wonder how this will affect the further print runs of the M&T and CKG. Now that one is coming out in color, there is also the others to contend with. With the Classic Monsters book just out, there is also no color in the book with the exception of the color plates. Frankly, I think this is the best option. Keep the book's art without color (at least for the most part), but maybe consider color plates like the CM book does as did the limited convention softcover printings of the M&T and PHB.

M

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Fri May 18, 2012 5:41 pm
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Ulthal
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
I'll support whatever the Trolls want to throw out there...under one condition...

My dad lives in Cabot - so the next time I'm out that way, they let me swing by the office and shake their hands. Maybe a picture or two...

:)

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Fri May 18, 2012 6:16 pm
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
I wondered what the retail price "might" be if the book was color all throughout. I hadn't asked Stephen about that yet. I seemed to remember they wrestled with the decision to raise the phb from 20.00 to 25.00 before 4th printing came out. With a possible increase to 30.00 as you say, will enough of the longtime players buy it? Some will for the color to be sure. That said, many players like the uniform look of their core, and secondary books. I assume the look of M&T and CKG would probably change a bit, thus falling in line with the full color art and new cover of the 5th phb. As for black and white art vs. color, it's hard to say. The color plates idea isn't too bad. Then again, the colored sketches previewed so far look pretty cool. I think it's great that the Trolls aren't making any significant changes. If they changed numerous things, including the siege engine, there'd be a fit. If they don't, some will say they're happy with their current printing. Whatever they do, affordable pricing and good presentation is key. Getting new players into the fold is vital, as well.


Fri May 18, 2012 7:32 pm
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
moriarty777 wrote:
Very good point. The only reason some people may grab these is to get it in color.

Actually, I'm not sure if I even like like the idea of this in color and wonder how this will affect the further print runs of the M&T and CKG. Now that one is coming out in color, there is also the others to contend with. With the Classic Monsters book just out, there is also no color in the book with the exception of the color plates. Frankly, I think this is the best option. Keep the book's art without color (at least for the most part), but maybe consider color plates like the CM book does as did the limited convention softcover printings of the M&T and PHB.

M


A big part of what attracted me to the game was the more retro feel, in terms of the lack of color art in the books. Don't get me wrong, I love the color panels that Peter has put into other products, and if color work from others who have contributed were included along with his, that might be fun to have. But at the end of the day, color art isn't enough of a draw for me to justify putting my $$ down on it vs. the re-vamped Codex. It's a great novelty, and it'd be loads of fun to get the artists' autographs on their work at cons, but my priorities are obviously screwed up these days. :(


Sat May 19, 2012 12:20 am
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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
tylermo wrote:
I wondered what the retail price "might" be if the book was color all throughout. I hadn't asked Stephen about that yet. I seemed to remember they wrestled with the decision to raise the phb from 20.00 to 25.00 before 4th printing came out. With a possible increase to 30.00 as you say, will enough of the longtime players buy it? Some will for the color to be sure. That said, many players like the uniform look of their core, and secondary books. I assume the look of M&T and CKG would probably change a bit, thus falling in line with the full color art and new cover of the 5th phb. As for black and white art vs. color, it's hard to say. The color plates idea isn't too bad. Then again, the colored sketches previewed so far look pretty cool. I think it's great that the Trolls aren't making any significant changes. If they changed numerous things, including the siege engine, there'd be a fit. If they don't, some will say they're happy with their current printing. Whatever they do, affordable pricing and good presentation is key. Getting new players into the fold is vital, as well.


It's a tricky thing... I have bought all printings with the exception of the 1st print PHB. I discovered C&C the same year and within a couple of months of the 2nd print PHB and got my M&T at the same time. I like the game so much, I even got a second set. I didn't hesitate with the 3rd print PHB and 2nd print M&T nor I did with the latest printings. However it was also with the latest printing (as far as the PHB is concerned) where I was not as satisfied as I had been and I wasn't all that happy with the changes to the Illusionist. I didn't mind that the Monk got 'westernized' and I think the new Barbarian is a cool take. Some of the slightly expanded areas in the book were also kind of cool but the changes from the 3rd print PHB to the 4th print didn't make it an improvement.

People feel differently about it and overall, it's a great book -- being the latest printing and the fact that there was more good added than bad, it's what I primarily use at my gaming table. However, if I order it, it won't be through the Kickstarter and there is a chance I'll wait to see what happens with subsequent printings of the other books. I hope the trade dress remains identical though in the even that I decide to only upgrade only one of them as opposed to all of them.

M

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Sat May 19, 2012 1:09 am
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: C&C Players Handbook, 5th Printing
Mori, I'm with you on the unified trade dress for at least 2-5 of their main books for sure. I met the Trolls about a year or so before the white box came out. Might have bought one of the GGF books from them in 2003 or 04, but didn't get the white box at that point. I'd have to look at old pictures, but I may have played in some of Todd or Stephen's games in Illinois those first two years. In 05, I remember buying phb 1st(at least I think it was 05), M&T presumably, and Crusader 2. In the years to follow, I would end up owning all the printings of the main books. I didn't like the glossy pages in 3rd printing phb and 2nd printing m&t. Just didn't work for the black and white look as it did in 1st, 2nd, and 4th phb. As for you concerns about 4th printing changes, I haven't really played an illusionist enough to know where I stand on the added spells, but I think I was fine with it. Barbarian and Monk alterations were fine, and it seems like class and a half and multi-classing do the job. I think changing EV too much, or leaving it out all together is going to be the tricky bit. Anyway, I'm not sure where I was going with all of this. I've seen the colored version of the Paladin, and other pic. Not too bad. Have also seen a very unfiinished preliminary sketch of the new cover. Looks cool. If they chose to stick with black and white interior only, and maybe color plates in between...I'm cool with that. The colorized version may be great too. I'm rambling.... :lol:


Sat May 19, 2012 3:45 am
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