On the Anvil: TLG 8951 C&C Basic Game

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On the Anvil: TLG 8951 C&C Basic Game

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Castles & Crusades Basic Game

Boxed Set, $29.95

TLG 8951, ISBN 978-1-929474-73-8
http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/8951.html

The ultimate game of Sword and Sorcery! Castles & Crusades Basic Set is an introductory game for new and beginning players with material particularly designed and written for people that are entirely new to role playing games. The C&C Basic Set presents novices all the necessary information to quickly launch their own game of C&C. Modeled after the best selling Castles & Crusades Role Playing Game, C&C Basic promises to streamline the rules, making character creation faster and easier. This version of the game is tailor made for a younger audience.

The Castle Keepers Game Book provides all the essentials for playing the game. Children have known how to role play for millennia, C&C Basic gives them the direction to really develop their role playing desires. Explanations on how RPGs work and how to work with RPGs kick start the CKs Game Book. Inside the reader is presented rules on how The Siege Engine works with attribute checks and how to use them; combat rules, saving throws, spell resistance and more. Explanations of how to award experience points are presented along with monster and treasure lists. Further explanations on how to design and run adventures are included.

The Player Character Game Book provides the reader with all the information needed to design a character and start play. Included are the four main classes (Fighter, Wizard, Rogue and Cleric) and two racial classes (Elf and Dwarf), rules on attributes, how to place them, rolling hit points and keeping track of damage. As well as rules for spell acquisition, equipment lists. Guidelines on how to play are all supplied.

The Iron Tusks of Cleversound. This short, introductory adventure plunges the newly minted characters into a dungeon adventure. The villages of the Little River Country have long been plagued by bandits and strange pale monsters. Those who dwell along the Little River speak of the ruins of Castle Mar, under which lie, in dark shadows and halls of stone ancient dungeon ruins. It is up to the characters to plunge into the deep darks and root out an evil long and old. An adventure for beginning level characters.

Physical Packaging: The Castles & Crusades Basic set comes in a complete 11.5 x 9 inch box that is 1.5 inches deep. It includes two books, The Castle Keepers Game Book and the Player Character Game Book, a loose sheet of character reference sheets (pre-punched for inclusion in any notebook), The Iron Tusks of Cleversound adventure, (pre-punched for notebook use), Castle Keeper Screens and dice.
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Post by Maliki »

Really looking forward to this one.
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Post by Akrasia »

This looks quite promising, but ...

... why no halfling class?!?

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Post by gideon_thorne »

Akrasia wrote:
This looks quite promising, but ...

... why no halfling class?!?

They have this thing against short people.
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Post by Coleston the Cavalier »

gideon_thorne wrote:
They have this thing against short people.

Now it all becomes clear! I can't get the Trolls attention because I'm only 5'3"! (It certainly couldn't have anything to do with having never met me personally, all my posts that make little sense or the fact that I am a preacher that plays rpgs! )
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Post by rabindranath72 »

No! No halflings! why not?!

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Post by Omote »

rabindranath72 wrote:
No! No halflings! why not?!

C'mon THEY'RE TROLLS... they eat them! There is your answer.

Seriously, I'm very much looking forward to this product. Totally awesome. I'm going to think of this as the advanced version of the C&C White Box. Here come the good times!

-O
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Post by Akrasia »

I have to confess that I'm disappointed that halflings are left out. It seems a strange decision, given that the product's predecessors.

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Post by Julian Grimm »

No Halflings? Happy Dance to follow!!
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Post by gideon_thorne »

Steve posted in the other C&C basic thread that he's looking at doing another supplement book later, that can fit into the boxed set, that includes Gnomes, Halflings, Ogre and perhaps other types.
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Post by Omote »

gideon_thorne wrote:
Steve posted in the other C&C basic thread that he's looking at doing another supplement book later, that can fit into the boxed set, that includes Gnomes, Halflings, Ogre and perhaps other types.

And that is some kind of awesomeness. While it may feel kind of strange to leave such races out of the core C&C Basic box set, it keeps the game pretty simplistic. The addition of more races is a great way to expand the Basic game by introducing a supplement or "expert" box set. heehee

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Post by gideon_thorne »

Omote wrote:
And that is some kind of awesomeness. While it may feel kind of strange to leave such races out of the core C&C Basic box set, it keeps the game pretty simplistic. The addition of more races is a great way to expand the Basic game by introducing a supplement or "expert" box set. heehee

-O

Wouldn't even have to be a box. It could just be another 48 page stapled book that someone could buy, or not, as they wish to include in the box they already have.
In fact, I think that would be the better idea, personally.
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Post by Omote »

Agreed. Matter of fact, that would be the best idea. I'll look forward it at my FLGS.
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Post by Akrasia »

My disappointment concerns the fact that this box set obviously hearkens back to the Basic D&D sets of yore. Thus the 'race classes'. But to include elves and dwarves but not halflings just seems strange. What good reason is there for doing this, given that the box set is deliberately attempting to emulate those basic sets (Moldvay and Mentzer) that did include the halfling? It simply makes no sense.

Gnomes and Ogres I can do without. Unlike the halfling, they're not 'core races'.

Just to be clear: this is not a big deal (no pun intended). I'm just puzzled by yet another small, but mildly irritating, decision concerning a C&C product...

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Post by Omote »

There could be lots of reasons, space limitations, class to prime breakdowns, Steve and Davis just plain ole don't like 'em, etc. As for being athrow back to old-scholl D&D, I wonder if the Trolls ever get tired of hearing that. They may have done this with PHB and M&T, but over the years have gained thier own little identity. Maybe Halflings arn't a part if the new Trolls...
Halflings are still delicious.

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Post by Julian Grimm »

I'd like to see a more distance between 'Old School' (god I hate that term) D&D and what C&C is. It was a nice selling point in the beginning but the game needs it's own identity other than a D&D emulator.
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Post by rabindranath72 »

What's a fantasy game without hobbits..ehrm halflings?!

Seriously, they are one of the icons of fantasy. It seems really strange to omit them.

Regarding the addendum book with the other races, it seems a really nice idea. What races I would like to see:

1) (Half-)Ogres

2) Goblinoids (goblin, hobgoblin, bugbear)

3) Minotaurs

4) Gnolls

5) A different kind of gnome (more akin to the AD&D version)

Well, thinking about it, all humanoids up to 4HD would be nice to have as PCs.

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Post by Akrasia »

Omote wrote:
... As for being athrow back to old-scholl D&D, I wonder if the Trolls ever get tired of hearing that...

C&C clearly hearkens back to earlier versions of A/D&D. To deny this is simply disingenuous. Yes it has it's own innovations -- the SIEGE system, slightly different interpretations of the classes, upward scaling ACs, etc. -- but they're hardly sufficient to justify the claim that C&C isn't a very close relation to earlier versions of AD&D. Moreover, this aspect of C&C -- and especially its easy compatibility with pre-3e versions of A/D&D -- is a major selling point for the system. I doubt very much it would be such a success otherwise.

Given that the C&C PHB ensured that all of the core classes and races from AD&D were covered (albeit with a different flavour), it is baffling that similar coverage wasn't a goal of the C&C Basic Set.
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Post by Akrasia »

Julian Grimm wrote:
I'd like to see a more distance between 'Old School' (god I hate that term) D&D and what C&C is.
You might like to see more 'distance' between OS D&D and C&C, but for the vast majority of C&C players, the similarity between earlier versions of A/D&D and C&C is a major draw.
Julian Grimm wrote:
It was a nice selling point in the beginning but the game needs it's own identity other than a D&D emulator.

And not including halflings in the Basic Set -- but emulating the old Basic Sets in every other respect -- somehow accomplishes this?

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Post by Akrasia »

Just to be clear: I am looking forward to the Basic Set.
It sounds very cool. My complaints about the ommission of our little furry-footed friends shouldn't be taken as a overall rejection or criticism of the game.

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Post by Omote »

Even if halflings aren't included in the Basic game, the ability for the CK to write them up themselves should be an easy task.

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Post by Piperdog »

This is a great thing; I look forward to getting this as a gift to my son. Does anyone recall whether TLG will be doing the Expert Boxed set as well, like TSR did back in the 80's?

If so, I have a feeling that the "missing" races, like halflings, will be introduced at that time.

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Post by Coleston the Cavalier »

Omote wrote:
Even if halflings aren't included in the Basic game, the ability for the CK to write them up themselves should be an easy task.-O

Omote's right. Once we see the way the Trolls worked up the dwarf and elf racial classes, it shouldn't be a big stretch for us to come up with other racial classes on our own. And we will still be pleased to buy and use further Basic C&C products!
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Post by Omote »

PIperdog wrote:
This is a great thing; I look forward to getting this as a gift to my son. Does anyone recall whether TLG will be doing the Expert Boxed set as well, like TSR did back in the 80's?

If so, I have a feeling that the "missing" races, like halflings, will be introduced at that time.

There is no word on an "expert" box set at all. The only mention is that Steve made regarding adding in the missing races at some later point. How this would be accomplished is not known.

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Post by Akrasia »

While it is of course possible for CKs to come up with their own version of the halfling class -- or any other class, for that matter -- I don't pay money for a game in order to spend my time filling in the gaps with that game.
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Post by Omote »

True, but the lack of the halfling in not neccessarily a gap. TLG decided they don't want them in for a reason. No gap. Maybe in the player's mind there is need for such a race, or maybe there isn't. Maybe TLG is deciding to go in a new direction with C&C basic that doesn't neccessarily emulate the older versions of the game... who knows? Maybe C&C Basic will have it's own little mini setting where halflings don't exist... who knows?

Just maybe, TLG is doing so for chance to sell a C&C Basic add-on book at some later point. Who knows.

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Post by Julian Grimm »

Akrasia wrote:
You might like to see more 'distance' between OS D&D and C&C, but for the vast majority of C&C players, the similarity between earlier versions of A/D&D and C&C is a major draw.

Funny, I see a supposed vast majority that wants a move away from the emulator aspect. P.O.V. and spin are your friends in this case
Julian Grimm wrote:
It was a nice selling point in the beginning but the game needs it's own identity other than a D&D emulator.

And not including halflings in the Basic Set -- but emulating the old Basic Sets in every other respect -- somehow accomplishes this?
[/quote]

Meh, going on an adventure without a halfling is like going to war without France. Both are like going deer hunting without an accordian; a damn good idea.
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Post by Coleston the Cavalier »

Has anyone considered that Halflings and gnomes may still be in the setting, just not as pcs?

Anyway, I hope all this discussion over a few words in the product's current description will translate into great sales!
Personally, and I am sure I speak for all us Basic C&C guys , \
"Give us a web address and we'll buy it pdf right now!"

Then we'll buy the box set when it comes out too!
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Post by Coleston the Cavalier »

double post
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Post by Akrasia »

Omote wrote:
True, but the lack of the halfling in not neccessarily a gap....

It is a gap, given that this Basic set clearly is trying to evoke (and to some extent emulate) the D&D Basic sets of yore, and that the halfling has been a 'core' race/class in every version of D&D (and every version, so far, of C&C, namely the original box set and the PHB).

So it certainly is a gap from my point of view. I'm puzzled that people think otherwise. As I've said already, though, I'm looking forward to this product. nonetheless
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