View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:31 pm



Reply to topic  [ 221 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
On the Anvil: TLG 8951 C&C Basic Game 
Author Message
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 223
Post 
Double post.
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/


Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:08 pm
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 223
Post 
Quote:
Julian Grimm wrote:
Funny, I see a supposed vast majority that wants a move away from the emulator aspect. P.O.V. and spin are your friends in this case



I hang out at RPGnet a fair amount. C&C is definitely perceived (correctly, IMO) as an 'updated, streamlined version of AD&D' there. And its immediate compatibility with pre-3e D&D is a universal 'selling point' of the system.

I'm genuinely surprised that there are many C&C players out there with no familiarity with earlier versions of D&D, or who wish to distance C&C from its obvious roots.

Quote:
Julian Grimm wrote:
Meh, going on an adventure without a halfling is like going to war without France. Both are like going deer hunting without an accordian; a damn good idea.



Well, I enjoy adventuring with French halfling bards who play the accordian, so tastes differ and all that.

Nonetheless, your personal preferences have nothing to do with what should be included in a product that is deliberately trying to evoke earlier Basic Sets.
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/


Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:21 pm
Profile
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 4514
Location: SW Missouri
Post 
Quote:
Quote:
Nonetheless, your personal preferences have nothing to do with what should be included in a product that is deliberately trying to evoke earlier Basic Sets.



This coming from the...lemmee see...oh, one person looking for halflings.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

_________________
Lord Skystorm

Grand Knight Commander KoTC, Member C&CS

Donner Party Meats: We're here to serve YOU!

AD&D per se is as dead a system as Latin is a language, while the C&C game has much the same spirit and nearly the same mechanics. --Gary Gygax 8/16/06


Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:27 pm
Profile WWW
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 223
Post 
Quote:
Julian Grimm wrote:
This coming from the...lemmee see...oh one person looking for halflings.



Well, in this thread rabindranth72 also expressed disappointment that there are no halflings in the Basic Set. In any case, given that there have only been about 5 people participating in this thread, making a generalisation based on such a small sample size would be quite foolish.

I'd be happy to wager 50 Euro that elsewhere the absence of halflings from a Basic Set clearly designed to evoke the old Moldvay/Mentzer versions will be seen as a gap.
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/


Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:32 pm
Profile
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 4514
Location: SW Missouri
Post 
I really don't think people care. It's not like it's missing a good race anyway. Just a redundant one that even Gygax wasn't fond of in the beginning.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

_________________
Lord Skystorm

Grand Knight Commander KoTC, Member C&CS

Donner Party Meats: We're here to serve YOU!

AD&D per se is as dead a system as Latin is a language, while the C&C game has much the same spirit and nearly the same mechanics. --Gary Gygax 8/16/06


Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:36 pm
Profile WWW
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 223
Post 
I'm not sure why the halfling is 'redundant' (if you were talking about the gnome, I'd certainly agree), but there's obviously no point in thrashing this corpse of a horse any longer.

I think that not including the halfling obviously makes the game incomplete, especially given that it's trying to evoke the old Basic D&D sets. Other people disagree. C'est la vie.
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/


Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:23 pm
Profile
Mogrl

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 13833
Post 
Quote:
Quote:
if you were talking about the gnome, I'd certainly agree)



NOOOO!!! Man, all this anti-gnome love. :(

Halflings are redundant. They are just short humans with hairy feet. Oh, and hunger pains.

Ogres are redundant. They are just large humans with small brains.

Dwarves are redundant. They are just humans who live underground and drink beer and like axes and hammers.

Elves are redundant. They're just humans with pointy ears, a hippie love of nature, and long lifespans.

Seriously... anything can be redundant. Its how they are presented that makes the difference.


Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:30 pm
Profile
Maukling
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 6176
Post 
Halflings and gnomes.. always getting shorted.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

_________________
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach


Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:36 pm
Profile WWW
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 3232
Post 
I hate to do this, but I need to get this out in the open, before the basic set hits and people get very disappointed, as I suspect (read in that: know) they will.

The basic set is not being designed as a revision of C&C or a reincarnation of the Moldvay version of D&D. I honestly, honestly, really honestly, have never read nor played the Moldvay version of D&D. To my knowledge, I never played Basic, Expert or .... isn't there another one....D&D. I went from little brown books to AD&D to C&C. Played 3.0 exactly twice, a great game but not to my tastes.

The basic set of C&C isn't being designed with any version of anything in mind but C&C. I have NO DOUBT it will have similarities, probably to the D&D basic set as I do know that that version of D&D has race-class combos. But please note, the Codex of Erde has race-class combos. That's the first place we did that. Mac Golden's High Elf is a class, that was published in the Codex in 2000 and stems directly from our Swords and Sorcery...that elf is the template from which i'm working on all the race classes.

The basic set's target audience is not 'old school' gamers, but young gamers. We are putting together a game that is even simpler than C&C, we want it to be faster play, faster to learn to play and less thought going into character creation. I've had long talks with Gary about games and the people who play them and we both agree that new, younger audiences have to be tapped. I'm not saying we will succeed were others have failed, but we are damned well going to try. CC Basic is that vehicle for us...right now.

The race-class concept is going into the basic set for its simplicity and that is the reason the Halflings are being cut from the initial games release. Simplicity. Having too many classes and races is having too many.

Thanks,

Steve
_________________
The High Lord, Coburg the Undying

He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

_________________
_____________________________
He Who Sits on the Elephants Back
The Troll Lord
Steve Chenault, President & CEO of Chenault & Gray Publishing, Troll Lord Games


Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:01 pm
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 223
Post 
Okay, thanks for the clarification Steve.

(Of course, given all the (then) young people who started playing D&D with the Moldvay and Mentzer Basic Sets, that's not a bad model to use to get new players IMO.)
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/


Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Profile
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 3232
Post 
Quote:
Akrasia wrote:
Okay, thanks for the clarification Steve.

(Of course, given all the (then) young people who started playing D&D with the Moldvay and Mentzer Basic Sets, that's not a bad model to use to get new players IMO.)



Agreed. And that's the tone of most of my conversations with Gary (trust me when I tell you (by 'you' I don't mean akrasia, but everyone) that when I talk to Gary I listen to him. He is the only one I know who took a company making very little and forged it into an empire, and I listen to him when he talks). TSR made active, some successful and some not so, attempts to get new audiences to the game. You can read in the old dragon mags his approach: never new additions, just an improvement of the older ones.

Now, of course are markers are different, but so are our resources.

Thanks,

Steve
_________________
The High Lord, Coburg the Undying

He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

_________________
_____________________________
He Who Sits on the Elephants Back
The Troll Lord
Steve Chenault, President & CEO of Chenault & Gray Publishing, Troll Lord Games


Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:11 pm
Profile
Battle Stag
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 11560
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Post 
BAM! Steve comes through with all the goods we need to know. This answers a lot of questions I think.

And as Coleston (I think) mentioned on page 2, maybe halflings and gnomes will appear as NPC / monsters. In any case, sweet.

........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

_________________
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<


Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:57 pm
Profile WWW
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 3232
Post 
To be sure, halflings and gnomes are not CUT from the game, in the box set they are not player options.

Steve
_________________
The High Lord, Coburg the Undying

He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

_________________
_____________________________
He Who Sits on the Elephants Back
The Troll Lord
Steve Chenault, President & CEO of Chenault & Gray Publishing, Troll Lord Games


Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:00 pm
Profile
Battle Stag
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 11560
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Post 
Good times. In my own little mind I am considering Basic C&C as an advanced version of C&C Collector's Box... although, even with Steve's description it seems like a different game then Collector's Box.

..........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

_________________
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<


Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:06 pm
Profile WWW
Maukling
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 6176
Post 
Quote:
Akrasia wrote:
Okay, thanks for the clarification Steve.

(Of course, given all the (then) young people who started playing D&D with the Moldvay and Mentzer Basic Sets, that's not a bad model to use to get new players IMO.)



*looks around for a rain of frogs* Wow, Akrasia and I agree on something... the worlds gonna end!
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

_________________
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach


Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:19 pm
Profile WWW
Renegade Mage
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 3735
Location: Montreal, Canada
Post 
Quote:
gideon_thorne wrote:
*looks around for a rain of frogs* Wow, Akrasia and I agree on something... the worlds gonna end!



Wait a minute... didn't Steve say Serl was right a couple of times just a few days ago?

Another sign?
Thanks for clarifying the details about the set... it sounds quite promising!

M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:21 pm
Profile
Mogrl

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 13833
Post 
Quote:
Quote:
I honestly, honestly, really honestly, have never read nor played the Moldvay version of D&D.



Want one? I have one that no one seems to want...


Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:56 pm
Profile
Unkbartig
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 880
Location: Herrin, IL
Post 
Quote:
Troll Lord wrote:
The basic set's target audience is not 'old school' gamers, but young gamers. We are putting together a game that is even simpler than C&C, we want it to be faster play, faster to learn to play and less thought going into character creation. I've had long talks with Gary about games and the people who play them and we both agree that new, younger audiences have to be tapped. I'm not saying we will succeed were others have failed, but we are damned well going to try. CC Basic is that vehicle for us...right now. Steve



Well, for me (and my three young boys), this is what we are looking for.

I never seem to have a good enough grasp of the rules to make very critical comments on these boards (even though C&C is not that difficult). That's why I try to be funny here and there. However, I know I could do a lot to bring in new, young players. I'm sure there are others who would be good at this too. I am really looking forward to using Basic C&C for this very purpose.
_________________


John Adams


Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:09 pm
Profile WWW
Battle Stag
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 11560
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Post 
Quote:
serleran wrote:
Want one? I have one that no one seems to want...



Heh, this statement will probably make me more unpopular, but when it comes to Modvay/Holmes version of D&D, I don't think you missed much. Personally the Mentzer version of Basic was epitome of classic D&D in my mind.

Anyways, who cares about that... C&C Basic IS on the way!!!

....................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

_________________
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<


Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:25 pm
Profile WWW
Cleric of Zagyg
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 10784
Location: Somewhere in Time
Post 
My nephew wants to try his hand at CK'ing and asked if he could run the D&D basic game from 2004 that we all started with before finding C&C. I'd love for him to try it, but I'll see if we can hold off maybe for a bit until this game comes out.

Otherwise, it's an easy Christmas or Birthday present after it's released.

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth


Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:37 pm
Profile
Battle Stag
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 11560
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Post 
Quote:
Rhuvein wrote:
My nephew wants to try his hand at CK'ing and asked if he could run the D&D basic game from 2004 that we all started with before finding C&C. I'd love for him to try it, but I'll see if we can hold off maybe for a bit until this game comes out.

Otherwise, it's an easy Christmas or Birthday present after it's released.



You should so wait! Honestly, the v3.X basic game stinks IMO. I'm not even sure if it's good to learn THAT game by. Give him a game he'll remember, the gift of true adventure... not mechanical adventure. Give him C&C Basic.
................................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

_________________
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<


Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:43 pm
Profile WWW
Cleric of Zagyg
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 10784
Location: Somewhere in Time
Post 
Quote:
Omote wrote:
You should so wait! Honestly, the v3.X basic game stinks IMO. I'm not even sure if it's good to learn THAT game by. Give him a game he'll remember, the gift of true adventure... mot mechanical adventure. Give him C&C Basic.
................................................Omote

FPQ



Yep, you're right. It's not 3.X. That's the kicker. It's actually a fun and interesting intro game for baginners without the crap of 3.X. Easy instructions and dungeon tiles and simple to run.

Then when you look at the 3.5 PH, you go into shell shock and say WTHeck???

But yeah, depending on release time, I'd rather give him this Basic C&C box.

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth


Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:50 pm
Profile
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 4514
Location: SW Missouri
Post 
Quote:
Omote wrote:
Personally the Mentzer version of Basic was epitome of classic D&D in my mind.

....................................Omote

FPQ



And can I get a big Hellz Yeah! from the congregation?
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

_________________
Lord Skystorm

Grand Knight Commander KoTC, Member C&CS

Donner Party Meats: We're here to serve YOU!

AD&D per se is as dead a system as Latin is a language, while the C&C game has much the same spirit and nearly the same mechanics. --Gary Gygax 8/16/06


Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:06 am
Profile WWW
Battle Stag
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 11560
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Post 
You know it. JG, speak it loud! Speak it proud!

-O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

_________________
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<


Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:11 am
Profile WWW
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 223
Post 
Quote:
Omote wrote:
Heh, this statement will probably make me more unpopular, but when it comes to Modvay/Holmes version of D&D, I don't think you missed much. Personally the Mentzer version of Basic was epitome of classic D&D in my mind.



The Holmes and Moldvay versions of BD&D were separate editions. While I started with the Holmes Basic Set, it wasn't that great IMO (aside from some rather cool Trampier illustrations, and a fun 'Skull Mountain' dungeon included in the end).

The Moldvay Basic Set, on the other hand, is the Platonic Form of an introductory D&D ruleset. It is simply beautiful (evocative Erol Otus cover, excellent internal art) and efficient (all the rules you need, clearly explained, in 64 pages). The Mentzer Basic Set, while fine, suffers from less flavourful art (IMO), a more 'patronizing' writing style, weaker organisation (at least as a reference while gaming), and breaking the rules into two separate books. I think that it's fine, but it's just not in the same league, in terms of style and efficiency, as the Moldvay Basic Set. But obviously this is a matter of taste.

Quote:
Omote wrote:
Anyways, who cares about that... C&C Basic IS on the way!!!



If it manages to be 20% as cool as the Moldvay Basic Set, I'll be happy.
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/


Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:27 am
Profile
Lore Drake

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 1102
Post 
I would have thought that after all the hype of the LotR films, hobbits (halflings) would be an easily recognizable fantasy character worth including in an entry level fantasy game. I simply do not see why elves and dwarves should be better known than halflings, and therefore more "useful" as prototypes of fantasy races.

Anyway, I hope the C&C set lives to the expectations!


Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:03 am
Profile
Maukling
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 6176
Post 
I think that the boxed set is going for the '6 class' pattern. So Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard, Elf and Dwarf.

6 classes, 6 primes. Does that make more sense?
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

_________________
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach


Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:19 pm
Profile WWW
Mogrl

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 13833
Post 
The rule of 6 will be used? Sweet. Now, if we can get us some chits...


Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:22 pm
Profile
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 3232
Post 
Quote:
rabindranath72 wrote:
I would have thought that after all the hype of the LotR films, hobbits (halflings) would be an easily recognizable fantasy character worth including in an entry level fantasy game. I simply do not see why elves and dwarves should be better known than halflings, and therefore more "useful" as prototypes of fantasy races.

Anyway, I hope the C&C set lives to the expectations!



Actually that was the only reason we considered putting the 1/2ling in, but we had two things to consider:

1) simplicity

2) what do kids play. most kids want to be the great big hero, not the clever, thoughtful, food gobbling little people.

so when combining number 1 with number 2. we decided to drop the halflings for the basic set.

Does that make sense?

Steve
_________________
The High Lord, Coburg the Undying

He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

_________________
_____________________________
He Who Sits on the Elephants Back
The Troll Lord
Steve Chenault, President & CEO of Chenault & Gray Publishing, Troll Lord Games


Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:24 pm
Profile
Battle Stag
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 11560
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Post 
Makes sense. However, after seeing what the race-as-class will look like in BC&C, that make many of us wonder more what ythe halfling will be like. Will it be a fighter/rogue combo? A ranger/rogue combo? Or something completely different?

We shall soon see.

.....................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

_________________
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<


Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:47 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 221 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.