I didn't kill my player's characters, but they did die...

[Cardinal Thor]

Thursdays I presided over my first total party kill. They started the session a man down, their cleric, then proceeded to enter the lair of a very old dragon. Now, admittedly, they didn't know it was a dragon lair to begin with, but it became obvious once they saw the dragon. It spoke with them, demanding tribute for their insult in entering it's lair. The wizard decided to sling a spell at it, then another. After dodging them both and attempting to talk again the rest of the party joined the attack. In two rounds everyone was down to 10 or so hit points, two of the characters were pinned in it's foreclaws with the other about twenty feet away. Again it demanded they leave all their belonging in order to leave. The wizard broke his Staff of Power, killing the entire party and severely wounding the dragon.

One of the players blames me for the deaths because in his words "maybe give us a warning next time".

[Sir Ironside]

OD&D saying... "You gotta know when it is time to run away."

Sounds like someone bred on recent role-playing where heroes don't die.

I like to preface any GMing session, with a group, that I'm on their side, but you do something stupid that results in your characters death, I'll let them die.

Other than that, this is why I get to know my players and adjust my GMing style to fit them. After all it is suppose to be fun, it is a hobby and it is more important to me that everyone is having a good time rather than RAWing everything.

[Cardinal Thor]

I agree on all counts. I knew that this particular player would not want to die, and indeed if the dragon defeated them he would have left them in an easily escapable jail cell with no gear, but alive. Once the wand was broken though I didn't feel like I could have them survive without telling them they're invincible.

[Just Jeff]

There you go. I'm always happy to sacrifice the joy of the moment if it makes the group more fun to game with in the long run.

[Arduin]

One of the players blames me for the deaths because in his words "maybe give us a warning next time".

There's no saving throw vs. stupidity.

[mabon5127]

It sounds like to me that you did give them plenty of "warning" to get out. Sheeesh!

[mgtremaine]

One of the players blames me for the deaths because in his words "maybe give us a warning next time".

How do the other players feel? It sounds pretty awesome to me, the Wizard who broke his staff went out in a blaze of glory killing everyone else, he sounds like a dangerously unstable man and great guy to party with.

Hopefully the rest of the group is enjoying the memory of so epic an outcome. As for the "warning next time guy", there will always be a certain type of player who can not, and will not, handle death well. No matter how reasoned the death is, how epic the adventure was, and how necessary the danger is to good role playing they will still whine about it. Not much you can do.

-Mike

[Rikitiki]

Well...if you really, really, really think they deserve another chance:

Bring 'em back from the dead -- figure the dragon has spells, and just
figure resurrection is in his repertoire. So, the dragon, impressed by
their boldness, brings them back for a price: a gaes to go on a
mission for the dragon in repayment for being resurrected. Gives
them back their characters (minus some equipment lost from the
staff breaking), and gives you a perfect plot hook to anything.

[Cardinal Thor]

The one who broke the staff is really excited about it, he thinks it was a great way to go. Him and another player are really excited to make new characters. The "warning" player has stated he intends to make a new character of the same class as his old character. I thought it was a great way to go out. It was also a bit of a wake up call for a group who has consistently gotten out of situations way over their head realize, with that "oh sh*t" look, that the breath weapon took their 12hd warrior down from full hp to nearly dead in a second.

I've told them from the outset that I won't save them from themselves, but they've come up with more than a few clever plans over the last year to get out of trouble. Unfortunately you can't outsmart a corrosive gas breath weapon delivered from 10ft away.

[Lord Dynel]

The one who broke the staff is really excited about it, he thinks it was a great way to go. Him and another player are really excited to make new characters. The "warning" player has stated he intends to make a new character of the same class as his old character. I thought it was a great way to go out. It was also a bit of a wake up call for a group who has consistently gotten out of situations way over their head realize, with that "oh sh*t" look, that the breath weapon took their 12hd warrior down from full hp to nearly dead in a second.

I've told them from the outset that I won't save them from themselves, but they've come up with more than a few clever plans over the last year to get out of trouble. Unfortunately you can't outsmart a corrosive gas breath weapon delivered from 10ft away.

Sounds like the party (or at least some of the players in the party) figured one of two things (at least if it was my group they'd be thinking one of these two things):

1) By losing all their stuff, they may as well be dead, and/or (and more importantly),

2) "The GM isn't going to put up against something we can't kill!"

I can't speak for your group, Thor, but I know mine suffers severely from #2. I think sometimes it takes an "unwinnable" situation to remind the players that there is another viable option. Retreat can actually be a viable, and useful, tool sometimes to determine exactly what the group will be up against. Couple that with retreating will usually save their lives, and becomes a pretty good option. I've been in this position before, and it's a delicate situation. I think you played it right though, Thor, and maybe your players will now have a healthy respect for the tougher challenges you face them with.

[gideon_thorne]

Actually, this would be the time to wax philosophic about the value of a tactical retreat. But at least your players are being good sports about it. If you can't win, go out in style.

[zacharythefirst]

I've always found without the threat of death, player accomplishments seem much more shallow. There's a school that says there's a lot you can do to characters short of having them die, but I think it needs to be there.

Didn't Gary used to say he never killed player characters, but they did it to themselves? I like that.

[CKDad]

The one who broke the staff is really excited about it, he thinks it was a great way to go.

I bet it will go down in group lore as a great "We died with our boots on!" moment. It's not every day that you get to pull a Gandalf!

[CKDad]

This is reminding me of a time when my party got the message. When the evil high priestess turned my 7th level paladin - without having to roll - the rest of the party decided to knock me out and parlay.

[Relaxo]

Ironside said it best.
And from what you say, the dragon gave them three chances to retreat? SO not your fault. The Wizard killed them all, not the DM.

Sounds like a fun session, though!

[Cardinal Thor]

I can't decide if we're going to continue playing C&C right away or give it a switch. This campaign has been going on for over a year and if we hit the pause button there's a shiny new Paranoia book sitting on my self. One Paranoia mission and my players will be glad that at least in C&C you generally know the reason for which you died

[Just Jeff]

One Paranoia mission and my players will be glad that at least in C&C you generally know the reason for which you died

Yeah, the wizard was a commie mutant!

[Relaxo]

He wasn't happy enough.
Your PCs ARE happy, aren't they?

(drift: one of my friends actually sorted M&Ms by color when we were playing Paranoia and would shot at people in game if they ate the wrong color for their clearance... a little over the top, but funny as hell. (end drift)

[zarathustra]

My 2 cents- you were fair. The dragon attempted parley, they chose not to & found out that they can't hack everything to bits without so much as a plan. ( i mean if you encounter a dragon unexpectedly, even if you plan to kill it, surely you retreat to formulate a strategy for an opportune time).

"the slaughter will continue until play improves" should apply here.

[Cardinal Thor]

I talked to the player who disliked how it went down yesterday. Turns out he's never had a DM put him a group up against something they weren't supposed to be able to defeat. He admitted to remembering me explaining that such would be the case in this game, but I guess it didn't sink in until it happened.

After talking with most of the players, their plan for next game is to have the formerly absent Cleric go looking for the party and, if successful, drag the bodies back of anyone who wants resurrection (I'll allow some metagaming here).

[Relaxo]

"Hmmm... tasty cleric," thought the dragon. LOL

[Arduin]

"Hmmm... tasty cleric," thought the dragon. LOL

And, they stay crunchy in milk.