Codex Druidum

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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Codex Druidum

Post by Treebore »

I think with this product I will have to feel that the 2E splatbook and 3E/4E power creep will have officially arrived for C&C. Oh well. It had to happen sooner or later, so I am glad its taken 7 years for it to happen. At least it sounds like a lot of cool flavor twists for fans of the Celtic Mythos is included.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Ancalagon »

I think the Codex Druidum will be well researched, more thought out, and filled less game imbalancing crap than the 2e splatbooks. I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on a copy! 8-)
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

The Celtic Codex took me twenty years of playtesting to design, so everything has been carefully tested, again and again. Trust me, it is WELL thought out and a blast to play from. There are so many possibilities in it! As it is said in Welsh, the book is 'Da iawn!' ;)

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Treebore »

Well, I am glad to hear you have put so many years of thought and play test into it. Still, it is adding the elements that are classic to the problems Splatbooks and the power creep in 3E/4E caused. More powerful races to play, "Blooded" powers to make your character even more powerful, etc... So until I see how you actually set everything up, I will have to be concerned that "power creep" is here.

Since the Celtic Mythos is my over all favorite, I was intending to buy this as soon as I read the blurb. Doesn't mean I don't have my concerns, though. Now if your right, and you have done it in such an ingenious way that this doesn't up the over all "power level" of the game, then I will absolutely love this. If it does up the power level, I will be a "lesser" fan of it.

Just to be clear, I am not saying I will hate this. I own all the 2E Splatbooks. Well, almost all. I have used a lot of various things out of them over the years. Usually special gear and story ideas. Its just this may be of considerably less use to me if it looks like it ups the power of the over all game too much, because I will have to ignore that material.

Understandable?
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

I won't say that it ups the 'power level' but adds a multitude of options never had before, that can exhibit mighty things in characters of good experience levels, plus if they are played well. As always, it comes down to the GM to provide the proper balance in things. I think the power level of games ultimately lies in the GM's hands and what they allow. With so many options out there already for them to use in their story-telling palate, it is always good to have more.

I have about 150 Faery Abilities for example. They range from light and barely noticeable to grand and earth-shaking, but they also have their limitations and requirements. Personally I don't know about the 'power creep' aspect you speak of in gaming. I think games should start out modest (usually) and grow to become epic in time. Larger than life and wondrous, the stuff of legends, and this gives that opportunity.

These abilities/spells can be added or taken away from as you need, to add that extra Fey touch in a way never had before. There are a large part of them that are purely optional because they are so powerful, but meant for demi-gods, 'bosses', etc (and this specified as optional). Keep in mind that the Druidic spells that this book provides come straight from Celtic myths, and they are powerful.

As a GM since 1984, I have found that the game's power level is only what you allow, not what is provided. Players are infamous for seeking the shortest route to becoming powerful if they can in the rules, finding loop-holes, etc to do it and still remain 'in the rules'. What this Codex provides is a whole new range of options that everyone can inject into their campaigns, and no has before I can assure you. I run epic games, all of them. The 'power creep' level as you call it does not exist because I curtail it, plus my gamers are not that type to do so luckily.

I say, plunder what you need from it, mutate it and have a blast with a Celtic style to it all. Empower your druids, add the faeries, and even travel to the Otherworld in Faery where few gamers have gone before.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Lord Dynel »

Tree, there's been supplements before that have tried to up the power level. Gods & Monsters comes to mind. So does some of the stuff from Tainted Lands. Like those products, The Codex will only up the power level of your game if you let it. ;)
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Treebore »

Lord Dynel wrote:Tree, there's been supplements before that have tried to up the power level. Gods & Monsters comes to mind. So does some of the stuff from Tainted Lands. Like those products, The Codex will only up the power level of your game if you let it. ;)
Well, the stuff in Of Gods and Monsters ended up never being used in my games. I have used the idea of giving exceptionally devout followers their "Gods favor" but in a much more scaled down way than in the book, and only in my home game.

Tainted Lands was at least presented as a "stand alone" that we can attach to our primary setting as we see fit.

I am sure the forthcoming familiars book is going to up the power creep as well, since the D20 version did. Who knows? Maybe Casey toned it down.

There is a lot in the CKG I don't use either, but I don't recall what I may have thought was too much, most I simply did not want to use, or need to use since I had much of what the CKG addresses worked out for myself years ago, such as leveling character classes.

Oh well, at least the PH makes it clear that the CK decides what is or is not in their game. So at least its not like 3E where I had players telling me I had to allow all the books, and showing me where in the book it says so, etc...

On top of that, its not like I am afraid of "power", ask the half dozen or so players I have lurking around these forums. My game is a bit higher powered than by the book. Plus I can handle high level games too. They can tell you how much I had them sweating even at level 14.

Guess I am just unhappy to see it growing in C&C, since stuff like this is what ultimately ruined 3E for me. So am afraid of it doing something similar to C&C down the road. Guess I'll just have to have faith, and stand my ground as the CK.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Omote »

I am very much looking forward to this supplement. You SOLD me celticgamer. Thank you.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

Croeso Omote!

It will seem bewildering at first with so much new stuff, but this isn't the usual gaming fare when 'Celtic' stuff is concerned. I am a scholar AND a gamer, and this is needed to justify all of those many bad books that were put on the Celts (i.e. the AD & D 'Celts' splatbook, Slaine, etc). They are all fun and good to use but it has never been done right.

Once you get it, tell me what you think about it and then inform me about your games and how they are working with it all. The modules I am releasing (Goblins of Mount Shadow, Crimson Pact, etc) all are sampling this material slowly. :)

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by serleran »

I apologize.

The book contents may be awesome, but the name is horrible.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

I originally called it 'The Otherworld: Celtic Adventures in Faery', but it was renamed to begin the line of Codices. The name isn't too terrible, it does mean 'The Book of the Druids' in Latin, a little easier than in Celtic - 'Y Llyfr Derwyddion'.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by serleran »

Yes, I am aware of what the title means. It is just not aesthetically pleasing to my reading voice. Perhaps something like Codex I: Mysterium Druidum would be better. However, it seems to be less about druids and more about the "sidhe." But, I could be mistaken.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

Both are in the Codex, quite equally and blur in places, as they should from a mythical perspective. I toned down the level of Celtic language use but not by much, otherwise it wouldn't be 'Celtic' anymore. The Sidhe or Tylwyth Teg are the main feature in the overall scheme and Faery is detailed and mapped out according to the many ancient sources. About 30+ druidic spells from myth are there in addition to the 150+ Faery abilities that can be used as spells as well.

I have so much left that it will need to be in supplements I think...

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Lord Dynel »

Treebore wrote:
Lord Dynel wrote:Tree, there's been supplements before that have tried to up the power level. Gods & Monsters comes to mind. So does some of the stuff from Tainted Lands. Like those products, The Codex will only up the power level of your game if you let it. ;)
Well, the stuff in Of Gods and Monsters ended up never being used in my games. I have used the idea of giving exceptionally devout followers their "Gods favor" but in a much more scaled down way than in the book, and only in my home game.

Tainted Lands was at least presented as a "stand alone" that we can attach to our primary setting as we see fit.

I am sure the forthcoming familiars book is going to up the power creep as well, since the D20 version did. Who knows? Maybe Casey toned it down.

There is a lot in the CKG I don't use either, but I don't recall what I may have thought was too much, most I simply did not want to use, or need to use since I had much of what the CKG addresses worked out for myself years ago, such as leveling character classes.

Oh well, at least the PH makes it clear that the CK decides what is or is not in their game. So at least its not like 3E where I had players telling me I had to allow all the books, and showing me where in the book it says so, etc...

On top of that, its not like I am afraid of "power", ask the half dozen or so players I have lurking around these forums. My game is a bit higher powered than by the book. Plus I can handle high level games too. They can tell you how much I had them sweating even at level 14.

Guess I am just unhappy to see it growing in C&C, since stuff like this is what ultimately ruined 3E for me. So am afraid of it doing something similar to C&C down the road. Guess I'll just have to have faith, and stand my ground as the CK.
Well, it already sounds like you have a good way to deal with the power creep, boss! :)

In all seriousness, I loathe to see power creep in this game as well. The only redeeming quality about C&C, in my opinion, is that there is a different mindset in this game than there is in game like 3.5 in regards to supplements and rulebooks. Players of C&C don't seem to have this intrinsic entitlement that you see in a lot of new edition mindset players where as soon as a supplement comes out, they rush out and buy it and just make the assumption that they're going to use it in the campaign. At least that's my experience.

I don't mind additional options, as long as said options remain in balance with the core material. When they don't, they are longer considered "options" to me. :)

...but it was renamed to begin the line of Codices
:shock:
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Sir Ironside »

Treebore wrote:Well, the stuff in Of Gods and Monsters ended up never being used in my games. I have used the idea of giving exceptionally devout followers their "Gods favor" but in a much more scaled down way than in the book, and only in my home game.
Oh well, at least the PH makes it clear that the CK decides what is or is not in their game. So at least its not like 3E where I had players telling me I had to allow all the books, and showing me where in the book it says so, etc...
I hope there is no offense given. But the bottom statement doesn't jibe with the two above. No one is making you purchase this book and you can go merrily on your way with out it, totally avoiding power creep.
Guess I am just unhappy to see it growing in C&C, since stuff like this is what ultimately ruined 3E for me. So am afraid of it doing something similar to C&C down the road. Guess I'll just have to have faith, and stand my ground as the CK.
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

In my 26 years of gaming I have never encountered, nor worried about the whole power creep issue, it is alien to me. Someone isn't gaming right. Our games are always epic, fun and unique. My players, and I have had scores of them in that time, never have the entitlement attitude or try to bully their way into the rules with new stuff.

Strange but true!

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by dachda »

Sure hope you include a pronunciation guide. Those Celtic spellings confuse the heck out of me!! Or maybe as a free download later? I have no idea how to properly pronounce "Sidhe or Tylwyth Teg" let alone "Y Llyfr Derwyddion".

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by MormonYoYoMan »

dachda wrote:Sure hope you include a pronunciation guide. Those Celtic spellings confuse the heck out of me!! Or maybe as a free download later? I have no idea how to properly pronounce "Sidhe or Tylwyth Teg" let alone "Y Llyfr Derwyddion".
That last name is pronounced "Bob." The Ys, Ls, Fs, Rs, Ds, Es, Ws, Is, and N are silent.
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

I might be able to give some brief pronunciation guides in the Codex, but if not I WILL make sure that there is a downloadable or additional guide to them all. Welsh and Irish are the main languages used since that is where we derive most of our lore and myths, but there is some of the rest of the Celtic language family in there too (Manx, Cornish, Breton and Scottish Gaelic, and even some Gaulish).

People have fun 'translating' my Celtic words all of the time around me, especially in our games. One of my old players' generic translations amounts to 'Broken Pink Table' for ALL of it. Use that one!

Llawenwch chi oll!

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

Sidhe is pronounced = 'Shee'
Tylwyth Teg = Tuh-loo-ith Teck'

These are fortunately simple examples without the Welsh double 'L', etc.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Rhuvein »

Lord Dynel wrote:Tree, there's been supplements before that have tried to up the power level. Gods & Monsters comes to mind. So does some of the stuff from Tainted Lands. Like those products, The Codex will only up the power level of your game if you let it. ;)
Yep, that's what I think.

And "power creep" is easily countered by a CK's "power down", "power countered" or "power smashed" abilities thru creative or manipulated dice rolling (or just plain high powered monsters kicking ass on PCs).

No worries for me.

Looking forward to the release.

:)
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Julian Grimm »

I guess I'm the outsider here as I enjoyed having the 2e splats and similar books. In fact, I still use them in my C&C game.
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Re: Codex Druidum

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Julian Grimm wrote:I guess I'm the outsider here as I enjoyed having the 2e splats and similar books. In fact, I still use them in my C&C game.
I'm with you on that. I still (well I did before I moved from FL and had to store ALL my game books) use the historic and setting books for ideas and modifications for class/equipment etc
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

If I wasn't writing them, I would Nerd Horde them all still! I love these kind of books and find them a fascinating and fun read.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Treebore »

Julian Grimm wrote:I guess I'm the outsider here as I enjoyed having the 2e splats and similar books. In fact, I still use them in my C&C game.
Like I said, I own almost all of them, so the only way we might differ is if you used the kits. I never did.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Julian Grimm »

It depends on the situation. If someone comes up with a good concept and a kit works we go for it. If a kit won't work we make one that will. One of my best purchases to date has been Core Rules with the expansion.
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Julian Grimm »

Lurker wrote:
Julian Grimm wrote:I guess I'm the outsider here as I enjoyed having the 2e splats and similar books. In fact, I still use them in my C&C game.
I'm with you on that. I still (well I did before I moved from FL and had to store ALL my game books) use the historic and setting books for ideas and modifications for class/equipment etc

For the most part I use Core Rules and have forgone getting the books unless one really stands out. My 2e book collection is the core AD&D2e books, Tome of Magic, Psionics Handbook, and the monster annuals. The rest is digital. If I ever get the money I will start collecting them again.

But let's remember, I use C&C as a supplement to AD&D so YMMV.
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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by nightstorm »

it's a shame the book is only for druids. It would be nice if there was a player's handbook for all the classes.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by moriarty777 »

Julian Grimm wrote:I guess I'm the outsider here as I enjoyed having the 2e splats and similar books. In fact, I still use them in my C&C game.
Well, back when 2nd Edition was the 'current edition', I had started buying the supplements (brown, blue, and green) but I got the majority of them in the secondhand market years after the fact.

The historical reference series was, by far, my favorites and I initially loved the player reference series. However, given that the player reference series eventually ballooned to 15 books or so, the majority of them I could have easily avoided. In the end, I think the Fighter, Thief, Wizard, and Priest books and possibly the Humanoids book were the ones that really shined. The DM reference books were also very cool overall. Each of these certainly had a place in 'rounding out' Second Edition.

In the past year though, I have begun thinning out aspects of my collection -- I have parted with the entirety of the Player Reference set since the Revised Second Edition books had some of the key material I really liked from the series (including a selection of kits). I am contemplating parting with the DM Reference only because I have sooo many other gaming books dealing with similar Reference type material. The Historical Reference ones are ones I chose to keep because they continue to be awesome and, I haven't found many historical gaming books that gives as nice of an overview as these do while remaining very practical.

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Re: Codex Druidum

Post by Celticgamer »

It isn't just for druids, it also covers the Celtic warrior (with rules on head hunting, woad painting, etc) and two new character classes (more half classes than full ones) and so much more.
nightstorm wrote:it's a shame the book is only for druids. It would be nice if there was a player's handbook for all the classes.
Although druids are its focus but so are the Faery Folk with what could be considered for a better word a new spell class and lists under Faery as well, and is less 'historical' and more 'mythical' in origin. The Germanic Codex will have an entirely different take and five new full character classes in it. It is a gold-mine of stuff! ;)

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