1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
Just Jeff
Red Cap
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:12 am

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by Just Jeff »

If the archer is shooting four arrows a round for two rounds, does the penalty cycle start over at the beginning of the second round, or is she pegged at -8 until she takes a breather?

User avatar
mbeacom
Ulthal
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by mbeacom »

Just Jeff wrote:If the archer is shooting four arrows a round for two rounds, does the penalty cycle start over at the beginning of the second round, or is she pegged at -8 until she takes a breather?
Awesome question. I would say this is totally a personal call for the CK/table to decide. I would probably peg it at -8 until the player returned to a single shot round and then start it over assuming he could get into position again with his arrows all lined up on a surface in front of him (no small task in the middle of combat!). I have to think his position would be compromised by that point though, except perhaps against the dumbest of monsters. Realistically, this is the kind of thing you could try to set up for the first round of an ambush and little else.
Witty Quote Pending
-Someone

alcyone
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2727
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
Location: The Court of the Crimson King

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by alcyone »

Fizz wrote: So basically, there is no reason not to ever take 4 shots (or more if the CKG allows it).
Well, they aren't free; you do have to buy arrows, normally. And 1 quiver of 20 is already rather a lot to carry, so that's 5 rounds of shots and you are done, and worse, if your CK doesn't let you recover them, you are sort of throwing them away with those terrible penalties.

EDIT: And I re-read what you said and mbeacom's response. I don't think I understood you were thinking of it as a general-purpose always-available thing. And indeed, if you are doing it at all, you'll probably spend all 4 arrows.
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com

Lord Dynel
Maukling
Posts: 5843
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:00 am

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by Lord Dynel »

Good points, all around!

I admit, I was looking at this maneuver more as a general option rather than something the PC has to plan out ahead of time. I guess the metathinker in me (or, truthfully, the anti-metathinker:)) was more concerned with this being an option all the time (despite having read the paragraph that precedes the table in the CKG). I was looking at a way to "balance" it as a general purpose utility rather than one that involved planning. But I think about how this will affect combat on a regular basis...meaning, "how will my players try to use this on a regular basis?" Of course, I have the power to prevent that, but I can see them looking for a way to "set up" before every fight. I'm not sure I agree with that.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

User avatar
mbeacom
Ulthal
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by mbeacom »

Lord Dynel wrote:Good points, all around!

I admit, I was looking at this maneuver more as a general option rather than something the PC has to plan out ahead of time. I guess the metathinker in me (or, truthfully, the anti-metathinker:)) was more concerned with this being an option all the time (despite having read the paragraph that precedes the table in the CKG). I was looking at a way to "balance" it as a general purpose utility rather than one that involved planning. But I think about how this will affect combat on a regular basis...meaning, "how will my players try to use this on a regular basis?" Of course, I have the power to prevent that, but I can see them looking for a way to "set up" before every fight. I'm not sure I agree with that.
You're absolutely right in your assessment of this being a bit wonky viewed as an always available option. It wouldn't make sense to be able to do this by choice on a turn during normal combat. Not at all. But, it's not such an option and I honestly can't think of how it could be turned into one as written, even by meta-players. It sounds like your brain is in a mode of always defending against abusive (of the rules) players. Thankfully, I'm not in such a mode since my players are not that way. I do understand some are, and with the best of intentions in doing so (help the group, etc). Anyway, I don't see how this would come up much, certainly almost never in routine dungeon exploration. You'd pretty much have to locate enemies and then draw them into a trap. Many ability checks and good planning would be absolutely required to ever set up an event like this in my games. And if you did, well it would be an awesome reward for doing so. :)
Witty Quote Pending
-Someone

User avatar
Omote
Battle Stag
Posts: 11560
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Contact:

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by Omote »

Goog points. The way I run this multiple rate of fire option is that if the archer does this, they get to move NO distance in the same round. My justification for doing so lies in that paragraph where the author speaks of having the arrows prepared and in front of him.

~O
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<

User avatar
zombiehands
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:00 am

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by zombiehands »

When I read that in C&C a character can fire up to 4 arrows in a round I thought it unrealistic but I did a little web search and found that it is probably not at all.

http://www.youtube.com/user/larsandersen23

Still it is probably not a good idea, after all a skilled swordsman or boxer could land many blows in 10 seconds.

In my next game I think am going to make critical hits give an additional attack and a called shot (-8) an automatic critical. That way you can chain as many attacks as you want together.

A critical fumble (1) will give your foe a free attack at you (in melee) and hit the wrong target with ranged attacks.
There are two novels that can change a 14-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
John Rogers

User avatar
Willy Rat
Ungern
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Canada

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by Willy Rat »

Just to throw a grenade into this barrel of wet oatmeal: What about having the archer make a SIEGE check versus his/her dexterity to take successive shots up to a maximum? I know it means another set of die rolls, but that's what they're there for. Right?
Willy Rat from the frozen wastes of central Canada

User avatar
Arakor
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:00 am
Location: Calne, UK

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by Arakor »

Just off the top of my head, how about:

Make a DEX Seige check against the enemy AC; you fire one arrow plus one for every 4 you pass the check by.
Maximum number of arrows is 1 plus your DEX modifier.

Example: you have a Dex of 16 (+2) so you can potentially shoot 3 arrows.
Against a goblin with AC 14, you get the following values: 14-17 = 1 arrow; 18-21 = 2 arrows; 22 or higher = 3 arrows.

User avatar
mbeacom
Ulthal
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by mbeacom »

Arakor wrote:Just off the top of my head, how about:

Make a DEX Seige check against the enemy AC; you fire one arrow plus one for every 4 you pass the check by.
Maximum number of arrows is 1 plus your DEX modifier.

Example: you have a Dex of 16 (+2) so you can potentially shoot 3 arrows.
Against a goblin with AC 14, you get the following values: 14-17 = 1 arrow; 18-21 = 2 arrows; 22 or higher = 3 arrows.
Love it! I'd swap out the AC=CC for a standard siege check CC though (CB+CL=CC). Then it's perfect!
Witty Quote Pending
-Someone

User avatar
redwullf
Ulthal
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:28 pm
Contact:

Re: 1 arrow per round: is there nonetheless a penalty?

Post by redwullf »

Meh. I just use the RoF table from AD&D PHB and simply allow the listed multiple attacks if no other movement is made. A move limits the attack to 1/round. I haven't understood why the CKG didn't keep multiple missile attacks this simple.
Image
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs. He presents opportunities
for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own.” -- E. G. G.

--------------------------------------------------
Castles & Crusades Society Member

Post Reply