Class and a Half question

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Rigon
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Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

For those of you that use class and a half, I have a question:

I get that at first level you add half of the xp cost to the primary class, but what would the xp cost be for going from 2/1 to 3/1?

For example: I'm making a barbarian/druid class and a half character. To go from 1/0 to 2/1, I would need 3102 (2101 + 2001/2). Would I then need 4701 (3rd level barbarian) + half of 4251 (3rd level druid) or 4701 + 1000.5 (the other half to get to 2nd level for druid). I'm a little confused on the wording and I'm thinking of doing a class and a half barbarian/druid for a new PC in Nate's Sunday game since my character died and is not able to be raised/reincarnated.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Treebore »

I'm not looking but since I also play a class and a half in Nates game, its take half of what the secondary class needs for the given level, then split that in half, and add that XP to each of the two levels you will function at. IE remember how its going to progress:

1/1
2/1
3/2
4/2
5/3
6/3
and so on. So half of half of the secondary class gets added to each of the two levels. So to find your value, 1,000/2, then divide by 2 again, and add that to each level. So for 1,000 original XP you will be adding 250 XP to level 1 and then level 2.

Edit: I may have actually done that level progression wrong. Like I said, I am not looking, but it still illustrates how to divide up the XP.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

Treebore wrote:I'm not looking but since I also play a class and a half in Nates game, its take half of what the secondary class needs for the given level, then split that in half, and add that XP to each of the two levels you will function at. IE remember how its going to progress:

1/1
2/1
3/2
4/2
5/3
6/3
and so on. So half of half of the secondary class gets added to each of the two levels. So to find your value, 1,000/2, then divide by 2 again, and add that to each level. So for 1,000 original XP you will be adding 250 XP to level 1 and then level 2.

Edit: I may have actually done that level progression wrong. Like I said, I am not looking, but it still illustrates how to divide up the XP.
In my 4th print PDF, the progression is:
1/0
2/1
3/1
4/2
5/2
6/3
etc.

So that's why I'm asking. Using your progression Tree, it makes perfect sense, but going with the RAW it doesn't work out right.

Here is the exact wording in my copy.
"The player picks two classes; one will be designated the principle class, and will essentially be the character’s “real” class. The other will be designated the supporting class. For example, a character combining fighter and wizard classes could choose to be either a
fighter who knows a few spells, or he could choose to be a wizard with some training in armor and weapons. Character will advance in the supporting class, and perform skill checks of that class, at half the rate of the principle class. A first level character would have the abilities of the supporting class at level zero.
Experience points needed for level advancement are determined by adding the XP of the principle class to one half the XP of the supporting class."

Going by the RAW, a fighter 1/rogue 0 would need 2627 (2001+626) to go to a fighter 2/rogue 1. What would he need to get to fighter 3/rogue 1? Is it 4627 (4001+626)? Going by that, the half class has earned all of the xp to become a 2nd level rogue (626+626=1252). You see where my confusion is coming from.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Treebore »

323 to each level. IE the 2/1 and 3/1 levels.

Yes, it is confusing, and even wrong to go by what the Trolls wrote. If you do it precisely as they wrote it you will end up paying full XP for half of the benefits.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Treebore »

I also had to house rule how they did multi classing. Not only do they want you to pay the full XP for the class(es) you want, but to add on even more XP cost? WTH?!? There is a certain amount of overlap, such as BtH, saving throws, etc... if anything you should get a little bit of an XP discount. I just stayed more in line with how it is done in 1e AD&D.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Treebore »

do you have a Crusader collection? The original class and a half rules are in there, and not screwed up.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Rigon
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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

Treebore wrote:323 to each level. IE the 2/1 and 3/1 levels.
I'm not following how you got to 323, Tree. I can't see anywhere where it says add half of the half to xp.
Yes, it is confusing, and even wrong to go by what the Trolls wrote. If you do it precisely as they wrote it you will end up paying full XP for half of the benefits.
This is why I'm asking. I don't mind paying full price. You would have to in a more traditional multiclass scheme. I just don't understand how to make the progression add up with the xp expenditure.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

This just popped into my head as a "fix." If the character did not pay any xp cost at 1/0 for the half-class, then it would work out as you would expect.
For example, let's use the fighter-1/2 rogue from earlier.

f1/r0 xp for next level 2001 -->
f2/r1 xp for next level 4627 (4001+626) -->
f3/r1 xp for next level 9127 (8501+626) -->
f4/r2 xp for next level 18252 (17001+1251) -->
f5/r2 xp for next level 35252 (34001+1251) -->
f6/r3 xp for next level 71002 (68001+3001) -->
f7/r3 xp for next level 139002 (136001+3001) -->
f8/r4 etc, etc, etc.

Doing it like that, clears it up immensely. If I used it, that's the way I'd do it.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

Treebore wrote:do you have a Crusader collection? The original class and a half rules are in there, and not screwed up.
No, but I have all of the Crusader magazines. Which one would it be in? I can look later when I get home.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Dracyian »

What I am wondering and thinking and trying to remember because my books are mostly packed away in the car already, I'm a little anxious about the weekend, is if the Trolls had it right but the handled it differently.
I seem to recollect something about class and a half from my Castle Zagyg book written by the esteemed Gary having it set up like what Tree was saying but you also only got about half the stuff from class and a half.
Where as the trolls I think give you all the abilities of the class.

Where I think your confusion is coming from R is that you are assuming that there isn't any experienced required to go from 0th level to 1st level for the rogue. I don't have any xp tables in front of me but I want to say the first few levels the xp requirements double, so if you gain 1/2 the xp required to be a level 1 rogue as essentially a non-rogue, you can now become a rogue granting you level 1 abilities and putting you at the bottom of the XP table

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Dracyian »

Now i'm not saying there has to be an exp requirement, but to put a bit of a realism spin on it, think of it like this, if you were lucky and tried sneaking and picking a lock, without basic tutelage, you would be caught dead in your tracks and that might be what the trolls are taking into account

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

Dracyian wrote:What I am wondering and thinking and trying to remember because my books are mostly packed away in the car already, I'm a little anxious about the weekend, is if the Trolls had it right but the handled it differently.
I seem to recollect something about class and a half from my Castle Zagyg book written by the esteemed Gary having it set up like what Tree was saying but you also only got about half the stuff from class and a half.
Where as the trolls I think give you all the abilities of the class.

Where I think your confusion is coming from R is that you are assuming that there isn't any experienced required to go from 0th level to 1st level for the rogue. I don't have any xp tables in front of me but I want to say the first few levels the xp requirements double, so if you gain 1/2 the xp required to be a level 1 rogue as essentially a non-rogue, you can now become a rogue granting you level 1 abilities and putting you at the bottom of the XP table
Ok, I get that. So for my example, the f1/r0 would need 2314 (2001+313). However, that's not how it is written and I want some clarification. If it is in a Crusader mag, I'll check it out and see if it clears it up any.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Treebore »

Rigon wrote:
Dracyian wrote:What I am wondering and thinking and trying to remember because my books are mostly packed away in the car already, I'm a little anxious about the weekend, is if the Trolls had it right but the handled it differently.
I seem to recollect something about class and a half from my Castle Zagyg book written by the esteemed Gary having it set up like what Tree was saying but you also only got about half the stuff from class and a half.
Where as the trolls I think give you all the abilities of the class.

Where I think your confusion is coming from R is that you are assuming that there isn't any experienced required to go from 0th level to 1st level for the rogue. I don't have any xp tables in front of me but I want to say the first few levels the xp requirements double, so if you gain 1/2 the xp required to be a level 1 rogue as essentially a non-rogue, you can now become a rogue granting you level 1 abilities and putting you at the bottom of the XP table
Ok, I get that. So for my example, the f1/r0 would need 2314 (2001+313). However, that's not how it is written and I want some clarification. If it is in a Crusader mag, I'll check it out and see if it clears it up any.

R-

I forget which issues. I think it was close to issue 20. If I have time to pull them out, I'll try and find it for you. As for the XP, yeah, you worked it out right. I forgot I was using my house rule version, where I do give credit for your BtH, saves, checks, etc... being made essentially useless by your primary class. Except the zero checks you may have for non existent class abilities, to a half dozen or so checks you might have for class abilities, such as for the thief. So I am the one who came up with the 1/2 of 1/2.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

Treebore wrote:I forget which issues. I think it was close to issue 20. If I have time to pull them out, I'll try and find it for you.
Well, I pulled out my Crusader mags last night and looked through most of them (starting around issue 15). I didn't see any class and a half articles. Maybe it was in an earlier one? I didn't look through them. I know, I should have, but I was going off of Tree's hunch that the article was somewhere in the issue 20 area.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Arduin »

Treebore wrote:I also had to house rule how they did multi classing. Not only do they want you to pay the full XP for the class(es) you want, but to add on even more XP cost? WTH?!?
That was intended. It is a penalty for trying to master 2 professions at the same time over, trying to only master one. Appropriate and 1st in the rules in AD&D 1st Ed.
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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Treebore »

Arduin wrote:
Treebore wrote:I also had to house rule how they did multi classing. Not only do they want you to pay the full XP for the class(es) you want, but to add on even more XP cost? WTH?!?
That was intended. It is a penalty for trying to master 2 professions at the same time over, trying to only master one. Appropriate and 1st in the rules in AD&D 1st Ed.

Glad its appropriate for you, but it isn't for me. The XP costs are "paid" for what you get to be able to do in a given class. When you are taking a class and a half or multi classing you are essentially creating a new class, so any over lap you create when doing such a thing in what you pay XP for, such as BtH, levels adding to your saves and other checks, and class abilities, then you should be getting a discount on the XP paid to do what the class combo does, not pay more "just because". So I used the old XP costs sheet Serleran put up long ago, and go from there, because paying for what you get to do is far more appropriate for what I want out of my C&C.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Arduin »

Treebore wrote:Glad its appropriate for you, but it isn't for me.
I was simply informing you that the rule was intentional and the history behind the Trolls decision as you did not understand it.
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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Lord Dynel »

Rigon wrote:This just popped into my head as a "fix." If the character did not pay any xp cost at 1/0 for the half-class, then it would work out as you would expect.
For example, let's use the fighter-1/2 rogue from earlier.

f1/r0 xp for next level 2001 -->
f2/r1 xp for next level 4627 (4001+626) -->
f3/r1 xp for next level 9127 (8501+626) -->
f4/r2 xp for next level 18252 (17001+1251) -->
f5/r2 xp for next level 35252 (34001+1251) -->
f6/r3 xp for next level 71002 (68001+3001) -->
f7/r3 xp for next level 139002 (136001+3001) -->
f8/r4 etc, etc, etc.

Doing it like that, clears it up immensely. If I used it, that's the way I'd do it.

R-

I'm not understanding, Rigon...I thought your example was how it was supposed to be done. That's the way I've been doing it. That's what the table implies, at least. :)
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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Rigon »

LD, that's what the table implies, but the wording implies that you have to pay an xp cost for the 1/0 level too. That is where I kept getting hung up on. I think the way I have it "fixed" in my post above is they way it is meant to work. Which makes sense to me.

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Re: Class and a Half question

Post by Lord Dynel »

Rigon wrote:LD, that's what the table implies, but the wording implies that you have to pay an xp cost for the 1/0 level too. That is where I kept getting hung up on. I think the way I have it "fixed" in my post above is they way it is meant to work. Which makes sense to me.

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Indeed, sir. I can see how that 1/0 level can be confusing. But they way you spelled it out is how I think it should be done, or at least what makes the most sense. :)
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