Players Handbook Six

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Troll Lord
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Players Handbook Six

Post by Troll Lord »

Hey folks,

As you may or may not have heard we are moving into the sixth printing territory. Maybe by end of year, maybe by early next. One can never be certain. But I want to get ahead of the eight ball on this regardless.

There has been some mention of areas in the PH that are confusing, not explained or not consistent. I would like to start a thread here and give you an opportunity to explain parts of the book that aren't working for you. We'll address them on a case by case basis.

This will help us immensely and hopefully you and everyone else plundering dungeons and slaying dragons (see what I did there? ;))

A few ground rules to help us stay on topic.

1) This is not a place to post misspelled words, punctuation or minor corrections like that. I'm going to set up a google doc for that that we can all plug crap into.

2) This isn't a debate forum. If someone posts a perceived problem and you don't see that as perceived problem, let it go. For it clearly is to them or they would not have posted it.

3) I may not agree with you in the end. Please don't be upset if what you think needs "fixed' isn't fixed.

4) No comments about layout, the color pictures or presentation. Peter Bradley and I are working on that already.

5) No need to make reference to how long the problem has persisted. Forward. Always Forward.

6) Brevity. I will be managing this, and I don't generally read long winded explanations and recaps. I'll skim it and as such may missing something. Obviously explain it clearly and take as much space as you need, but do keep it as brief as possible (ironic that this guideline is the longest of all six hahahah).

7) On spells. Any spells that are in question, please discuss in its own post.

8) One rules clarification per post. That way when i start fixing them, i can go into your post and say EDITED or some such mess to let us all know the fix is in.

EDITING POSTS: Hey folks, I'm just going to edit your posts that get off topic, etc etc.

Thanks!
Steve
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Dracyian
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Dracyian »

Edited to follow new rules

Inclusion of Index

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kreider204
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by kreider204 »

Clarifications about head AC, helms, etc. - just that the PHB doesn't include called shots or hit locations, but there are optional rules (e.g., in the CKG) if people are interested. It seems like the new folks ask about that a lot.

TROLL: ADDED TO ARMOR CLASS SECTION on page 132

Armor Class adjustments for helmets apply to strikes against the head only, they do not otherwise adjust armor class.

If there is an instance where the Castle Keeper determines that a blow lands on a head, either through the head being the only exposed target or some other circumstance. The AC of a head is 10 (+ dexterity). Each helmet’s adjustment is listed in the equipment list. A normal helm, for example, has a +5 adjustment to armor class. This gives the individual wearing that helm a 15 AC for their head. Other modifiers may apply, dexterity, called shot (refer to the Castle Keepers Guide), etc.

Some of the armors include helms at no additional cost: Scale Mail includes a Leather Coif; Chain Mail includes a Chain Mail Coif; Plate Mail includes a Normal Helm; Full Plate and Polish Hussar includes a Great Helm.

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Arduin
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Arduin »

In the PDF: In the Spell List section, link the spell names to their full description.

TROLL: DONE.
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by kreider204 »

Clarification about the nature of illusion magic, whether it's "in the mind" or not.

(Frankly, I wouldn't at all mind if the PHB went the way of the CKG's interpretation - but to that end, I'd actually rather there be no difference between illusionist's version of spells and those of anyone else. Jus t sayin' ... )

TROLL: We've included some of the notes on Illusions from the CKG to help justify the healing spells.

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by kreider204 »

Page 46 of the CKG suggests some clarifications for a handful of spells - if you think those are valuable, you might consider including them in the PHB.

TROLL: The spells are playable with greater variety in the PH. The CKG gives you more detail. We like to keep as much in the CK/Players hand as possible.

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Arduin
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Arduin »

TWILIGHT VISION
Even under starlight, moonlight or torchlight these creatures have
exceedingly good vision. They can distinguish color and detail under
these conditions for up to one mile when outside.
----------------------------------------------

I've had questions from players on this one. How do you see one mile outside while holding a torch? Needs clarification.

TROLL: AMENDED.
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Treebore »

The lists Traveler has compiled as well as cleaning up Phantasmal Killer and its claim that it can be stopped by a spell that itself clearly states cannot effect spells above third level. It would also be nice to clean up the Bless spell, defining its effect a bit more clearly. I'll ask my groups of gamers about their pet peeves throughout the week. Even the thrid group I am in should play this Sunday.

TROLL LORD: PHANT KILLER CORRECTED. Removed word "Minor"
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Dracyian
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Dracyian »

Seige engine variants, and how to work the seige engine a little better

TROLL LORD: This needs a little clarification. Are you talking about putting in the book the "add 6 to your die roll deal?"

ME: I was thinking of the add 6 to the die roll, and/or a small paragraph on Challenge Level, how it can changed and when to and when not add class level to the roll

TROLL: This belongs in the CKG.

PeelSeel2
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by PeelSeel2 »

Encumbrance needs to be clarified and simplified.

TROLL LORD: This was taken care of in the 5th printing.

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Desrimal
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Desrimal »

A revised weapons list. I have a few problems with the one in 5th prining:

A: Wich weapons have reach longer than 10 feet? Wich weapons are shorter than six feet? This is impotant because of the initiative rules.
B: Some weapons have clear advantages over others. Is the G0dentag really supposed to be a one-handed weapon?
C: Are there ANY point in using small/light weapons? Can a halfling use a longbow? (or can a longbow use a halfling?)

Off course a Little "flavor" is a good thing, but I need a clarification AND something that makes a little more sense rules-wise. (The weapons list from D&D Next is nice).

TROLL: added @ symbol and text for all 10+ weapons. No flavor text added to the PH for weapons. Adventurers Back Pack more like. Godentag is 2-handed.
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by alcyone »

Damage from thrown liquids chart that is in the screen should also be in PHB.

This is in the CKG.
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Omote
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Omote »

CLASS AND A HALF rules. There needs to be some clarification about the class abilities of the supporting class at "level 0." [CLASS AND A HALF, 2nd paragraph, last sentence] Does this mean that when the character performs the ability, he adds his level of 0 to the roll? For example, a class and a half Fighter/Wizard: Does the supporting class (wizard) receive spells since he is a 0-level wizard? Another example, class and a half Fighter/Cleric: does the supporting class (cleric) gain the ability to Turn Undead, but adding 0 to the roll? Can the 0-level cleric cast divine spells?

~O

TROLL: ADDED
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Omote »

EXPERT WEAPONS AND ARMOR. Perhaps a little clarification is needed here. For weapons, please state a bit more clearly that a +1 to damage makes the weapon cost 10 times more. While a GREATER EXPERT ITEM gives a +1 to damage and to hit, and costs 25 times the price. The term "greater expert item" appears for the first time within the Eskadia: Jack of Lies setting to denote a weapon that has +1 to damage and +1 to hit.

Can an item have a +1 to hit instead of a +1 to damage and only cost 10 times the base price?

Describe the same process for armor with a 10 times cost modifier for +1 AC, and 25 times cost for +1 AC and a reducing in damage of 1. Perhaps these costs are different for armor? For ease of play I'd stick with the 10X and 25X paradigm.

~O

TROLL: CLARIFIED.
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Omote »

BARD CLASS ABILITY, EXALT. Does the bard have to devote actions round after round concentrating on EXALTING? For example, doe the Bard have to keep playing his music/chanting etc. as his action every round in order to maintain the benefit of the ability? Or, can the bard spend 1 round using the ability and that ability continues for the duration while the bard performs other actions in subsequent rounds?

~O

TROLL: Clarified.
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Omote »

KNIGHT CLASS ABILITY, WEAPON TRAINING. "weapon training" is mentioned in the abilities section of the knight class, but is not described. Please describe this ability in the knight character class, or eliminate. Although the knight having a special ability with weapons that doesn't pertain to hitting or damage would be a nice bump for the class itself.

~O

TROLL: REMOVED
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Buttmonkey
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Buttmonkey »

I've never been clear on the barbarian's intimidation ability. Is it automatic or does the barbarian have to spend a round attempting to intimidate a foe as the barbarian's action?

TROLL: I've clarified this a bit "Intimidate (Constitution): Barbarians offer an imposing display of ferocious raw power. They instinctively realize that victory lies in the wine-besotted, soft demeanors of their foe and that brute force works best when combined with overwhelming terror. Barbarians are able to project themselves as this brutal, terrifying force. Whether through sheer force of will, or savage decorum, a barbarian is able to strike fear into and intimidate his opponents. While attack and upon a successful constitution check any creature of equal or lesser hit dice of the barbarian suffers -2 to all rolls, including but not limited to initiative, attack, damage and attribute checks. This ability takes effect as soon as the barbarian uses the ability. He must announce it before rolling initiative. It has a 15 foot radius area of effect. Intimidate is usable only once per combat encounter. At 1st level, a barbarian can intimidate one creature. The number of creatures intimidated increases with level as follows:  up to 2 creatures at 3rd level, up to 4 creatures at 6th level, up to 8 creatures at 10th level, and up to 16 creatures at 15th level. The intimidation ends the moment the barbarian fails to strike the intimidated creature."
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

One of my bugaboos is that minutes and turns in spell casting times and spell descriptions are used interchangeably. It should be rounds, turns, hours, or days for casting times and when mentioned in spell descriptions.

TROLL: TURN REMOVED.

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 74 - Create Water: The EV of a cubic foot of water is not given in the spell description, being instead described using gallons and pounds.

TROLL: The 5th printing doesn't mention gallons, pounds or EV, just a broad 3 humans and 1 horse.

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 76 - Detect Chaos, Evil, Good or Law: The spell name is quite a mouthful. Detect Alignment would be a lot easier to say and write.

TROLL: AMENDED TO DETECT ALIGNMENT. The spell did not change, it is still only directed toward one alignment type.

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 77 - Dispel Chaos, Evil, Good or Law: Dispel Alignment is a lot easier to say and write.

TROLL: AMENDED TO DETECT ALIGNMENT. The spell did not change, it is still only directed toward one alignment type.

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 97 - Polymorph Self, Polymorph Other: These two spells are treated as two variants of the same spell, with a single "Polymorph" header. They should be treated as separate spells since they have different ranges, durations, saving throws, spell resistances, and components. The "Polymorph" header needs to be removed.

TROLL: Inserted this text after spell name: Polymorph is a single spell; however, it acts differently if cast upon someone other than the caster or if the caster casts it upon himself. Refer to the spell description below for casting on “other” and for casting on “self”.

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 99 - Protection Chaos, Evil, Good, Law: Protection From Alignment sounds better.

TROLL: AMENDED TO DETECT ALIGNMENT. The spell did not change, it is still only directed toward one alignment type.

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 106 - Stinking Cloud: A "strong wind" should be a "moderate wind" and a "greater wind" a "strong wind", to be consistent with Cloudkill. Thus, replace "A strong wind disperses the fog in 4 rounds, a greater wind dispersing it in 1 round." with "A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the cloud in four rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the cloud in 1 round."

TROLL: CORRECTED

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 108 - Summon Familiar: There is no "Gods and Demons" book. If Demons and Devils appear in a book, that book's title needs to be used instead, or else the mention of the "Gods and Demons" book needs to be removed.

TROLL: CORRECTED

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 112 - Tiny Hut: "(thus, if it's 20 degrees outside, inside it'll be 50 degrees)" should read "(thus, if it's -20 degrees outside, inside it will be 50 degrees)".

TROLL: CORRECTED

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Traveller »

page 134 - Hit Points: In the "At -1 to -6 hit points" section, the last sentence of the first paragraph should read "With most magical healing, the character's hit points can only be returned to 0, after which healing proceeds normally". Heal is a clear exception to this as it restores all but 1d4 hit points.

TROLL: CORRECTED

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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by Lord Dynel »

Change illusionist healing to a "temporary hit point" mechanic that goes away after a determined amount of time. In my opinion, it follows the illusionist theme better while still allowing for "healing," and is still a worthwhile endeavor.

TROLL: Illusionist spells will remain as is. Some material from CKG will be moved over to help explain.
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by alcyone »

On p. 125 is the information on when to add level. Class abilities are given as the exception.

- The word "non-class ability" comes up, but it's used to mean a class ability that is not for one of YOUR classes.
- This probably includes racial abilities.

I remember being confused on the class/race siege level add thing when I started out.

(EDIT:
I think the race/class ability thing isn't that confusing. What initially confused me was that the section Adding Level to Checks says one particular place not to add level, but without saying clearly "Otherwise, ALWAYS add level.")

TROLL: Changed wording to this: "If a Castle Keeper, for whatever reason, does allow a character to attempt to use a class ability of another class . . . ."
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Re: Players Handbook Six

Post by alcyone »

Disengage/hasty disengage (p.132) ought to have an example; it's complex enough that I never see anyone use it as written. It's already as (un)clear as withdrawal and retreat in AD&D and Classic D&D, but C&C could do better.

Particularly in "they can also opt to follow those...". When? If on their turn, they could have anyway.

TROLL: Disengaging from combat is a dangerous maneuver since it exposes the character to attacks, but it automatically puts distance between the disengaging party and their opponent. The player must announce that he is disengaging at the beginning of the round. The disengaging character does not roll initiative. If disengaging a character can take no other action. The character is allowed a movement as defined below. Player characters, monsters and non-player characters can disengage from combat.

Hasty Disengagement: is one in which the character or monster attempts to leave combat and expends all effort to do so. A character disengaging hastily may move as far as possible up to their maximum running distance, but they suffer a -2 to armor class and their opponent gets an attack against them as they run away. This is a free attack and does not count against the opponent’s other action in the round, although the opponent may not make a second attack against the fleeing character. The armor class adjustment lasts throughout the combat round and applies to every attack against the fleeing character.

Fighting Disengagement: is a more carefully executed withdrawal from combat. By performing a fighting disengagement, the character moves one-half their movement rate or less away from their opponent and they can disengage from combat. The character suffers no penalty to armor class, but they cannot take any other action in the round.

In the round following the disengagement the character or monster has put distance between theirselves and their opponent.
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