Thoughts on encumbrance

[Rigon]

So, I've been thinking about encumbrance for my game. I'm not a fan of the encumbrance rules in the PHB, so I've been trying to think of a simple way to handle it. Today I was reading through the last D&D Next playtest packet and in there, they have a very simple encumbrance rule. I'm thinking of adapting it for C&C.

In D&DN, you take your attribute score and multiple it by 10. That's what you can carry up to before you become encumbered. Your maximum carry capacity is double your encumbrance. If you are encumbered, you suffer a -10 foot movement and disadvantage on Str, Dex, and Con checks and saves.
(Str 10 would have encumbrance of 100 lbs, carry cap of 200 lbs)

For C&C, I'd probably have the penalty be -10 feet movement and a -4 to Str, Dex, and Con checks. If Str Prime, multiple by 12.5 for encumbrance.
(Str 10 equals 100 lbs/200 lbs non-prime or 125 lbs/250 lbs prime.)

Thoughts?

R-

[Arduin]

In D&DN, you take your attribute score and multiple it by 10. That's what you can carry up to before you become encumbered.

Thoughts?

R-

So, someone with a Str score of 11 (average human) can carry 100 lbs. and NOT be encumbered? If that is the case I think it sucks.

[Rigon]

So, someone with a Str score of 11 (average human) can carry 100 lbs. and NOT be encumbered?

Actually, 110 lbs.

If that is the case I think it sucks.

Very constructive and helpful.

R-

[Treebore]

Realism isn't meant to be in D&D, let alone C&C. Just "close enough". I sure as hades don't want to spend my time micro managing gear. So a good general rule of thumb is good enough for me. I don't want to start getting into how more and more can be carried because of this or that back pack, or how this or that is worn, etc... Within the ball park is fine.

[Arduin]

Very constructive and helpful.

R-

Yep. When something is REALLY bad, that's the feedback. "Ballpark" would be less than 1/2 that value.

[Rigon]

Realism isn't meant to be in D&D, let alone C&C. Just "close enough". I sure as hades don't want to spend my time micro managing gear. So a good general rule of thumb is good enough for me. I don't want to start getting into how more and more can be carried because of this or that back pack, or how this or that is worn, etc... Within the ball park is fine.

As you know, that's how I usually run it. It's just something that has been creeping around my head for a few weeks. I saw that and liked the simplicity of it, so thought I'd see what others thought. I hate extra bookkeeping, so will probably not bother with more than an "eyeball" test for encumbrance. But if I wanted to add one, I'd like to add one that is as simple to use as possible.

R-

[Rigon]

Very constructive and helpful.

R-

Yep. When something is REALLY bad, that's the feedback. "Ballpark" would be less than 1/2 that value.

That at least is helpful.

R-

[Treebore]

I don't know, I routinely saw the US Army make all of their soldiers haul around over 100 LBS packs, regardless of what their regs actually said. Yet they still wondered why so many were blowing out their knee's, etc...

[alcyone]

What usually happens in my games is if I determine that someone is encumbered, they tell me they drop their pack on the ground when they do anything besides marching. If you are playing in Maptool or at the table, an additional counter for these dropped packs can be some good evil fun for the DM.

Wait, what am I saying, I am in your game.

Never mind.

Your rule sounds ok, but I don't see it coming up, and if a rule is in place for it you are sort of losing your troll-given right to wing it. Asking for a quick accounting of how someone is carrying that and assessing a CL +1 for each overstuffed bag or dead body they are dragging, and asking for an additional STR SIEGE check on every action they insist on performing with said stuff seems like it would work. In the case of movement, a failure might mean they went half as far, with a serious failure meaning they went nowhere.

As long as items seem like they'd fit in the containers the characters are carrying, the only thing likely to happen to encumber them in a way that affects combat or skills is a poor choice in assessing density: a lead statue or a pack filled with nothing but gold coins. Those particular cases, if you are aware of them, could just be a higher CL.

[Rigon]

I'm not a stickler for what people are carrying on them in game, as long as it is reasonable. And like I said, this has been creeping around the ol' noggin for a few weeks.

R-

[Treebore]

Now that Teleport is available in my game, weight is pretty important. So yeah, the players better decide what they are willing to drop and leave behind to get out via a Teleport, or even a Dimension Door.

[jdizzy001]

I have 2 ways of measuring encumbrance.
1) str x 10 = max encumbrance value. I did not get it from dndn but a different rpg
2) my current preferred method (which I borrowed from mouseguard) a pc may carry a number of items equal to their str value. Example, a wizard with str 8 may carry 8 items. This does get a little more difficult with cluster items like arrows, but in that case I allow a certain number to equal 1 item slot. 20 arrows counts as 1 item. A sack, harversack, and backpack increase the number of items one can carry. Also, in this scenario, mithral items do not take up a slot, because they are so light. I know this does not address the mass of an object but it is understood by my players that the ck has final say over what can logistically be carried.

[Traveller]

For encumbrance I use a modified (and more fleshed out I believe) version of the encumbrance system devised for RuneQuest 2d Edition.

Each item in Castles & Crusades has an encumbrance value based on the concept of how easily the item can be carried or used. Items that can be carried or used easily in one hand (e.g. a sword, chalk, lockpick set or rope) have an EV of 1. Items that require two hands to carry or use (e.g. polearms) have an EV of 2. Items requiring an arm to use (e.g. a shield), regardless of whether they only require one hand to carry or not, have an EV of 2. These general guidelines can be used to determine the EV of any item listed in the Castles & Crusades equipment lists.

A capacity item is an item that is worn or carried that can carry other items in it. The items that can be placed in a capacity item are limited to items with an EV of 1. The number of items in a capacity item determines its EV for purposes of encumbrance calculations. In Castles & Crusades capacity items can be broken down into worn items such as backpacks, belt pouches and shoulder packs; and carried items such as baskets, barrels, chests and sacks. The EV of a capacity item is determined by the number of items within it. If the capacity item is empty, or the number of items within the capacity item is less than the capacity item’s EV when empty, the EV is of the item itself. For example a backpack with four items in it would have an EV of 4. That same backpack with one item in it would have an EV of 2 since 2 is the EV of the backpack itself.

Worn items: The backpack has a carrying capacity of 8 and an EV of 2 when empty. Small belt pouches and spell component pouches both have a capacity of 1 while the large belt pouch has a capacity of 2. All pouches have an EV of 1 when empty. Shoulder packs have a carrying capacity of 10 and an EV of 2 when empty.

Carried items: The basket has a carrying capacity of 2 and an EV of 1 when empty. The small chest has a carrying capacity of 6 and an EV when empty of 2. The large chest has a carrying capacity of 8 and an EV of 2 when empty. The small sack has a capacity of 6 while the large sack has a capacity of 8. Both sacks, regardless of size, have an EV of 1 when empty.

Encumbrance Rating: To determine the character's encumbrance rating, add together the character's Strength and Constitution scores and divide the result by two. The maximum number of items a character may carry comfortably is limited by the character's Strength score. For example, a character with a Strength of 11 and a Constitution of 17 may only carry 11 items comfortably, even though the average of the two characteristics is 14. A character with the scores reversed (i.e. a Strength of 17 and a Constitution of 11) can only carry 14 items comfortably because while he has the brawn to carry 17 items he simply doesn't have the stamina to carry such a load for any length of time. The absolute maximum the character can carry is equal to 1½ times his Strength rating.

The character can carry additional items on his person — up to his absolute maximum — at a corresponding loss of mobility (see the Encumbrance chart in the Players Handbook). Some characters will be penalized due to a low ER rating unless they carry fewer items than their ER score. For example, a character with an ER of 4 would be considered Normal at 2, Light at 3, Moderate at 4, Heavy at 5, and Overburdened at 6.

Armor, helms and clothing, being evenly distributed over the body, do not affect the character's Encumbrance Rating.

Weight Equivalents: A character may carry a maximum of 300 copper pieces times his overburdened ER without any other encumbrance. The 300 copper pieces are assumed to be in a sack and thus count as one item, weighing approximately 6 pounds.

Ad-hoc Encumbrance: For items that cannot be easily determined using the general guidelines from the beginning of this section, the Castle Keeper can use the weight equivalents given to determine an EV for odd items, such as tapestries and suits of armor. The Castle Keeper can assign an EV using either of the following methods:

• Assign a coin value for the weight and divide by 300 to determine the EV of the item.
• Assign a weight in pounds for the item and divide by 6 to determine the EV of the item.

Mounts: To determine the carrying capacity of a horse or other mount, take the weight rating for the mount given in its entry in Monsters & Treasure and divide by 6, rounding to the nearest whole number. This is the number of items a mount can carry or pull behind it.

Barding does not affect the carrying capacity of a horse or other mount.

I have a chart detailing the encumbrance breakpoints. It's not necessary to have the chart in order to use the system, but it might be useful.

Code: Select all

Rating	Normal	Light	Moderate	Heavy	Overburdened
3	1	2	3	4	5
4	2	3	4	5	6
5	4	5	6	7	8
6	5	6	7	8	9
7	7	8	9	10	11
8	8	9	10	11	12
9	9	10	11	12	14
10	10	11	12	13	15
11	11	12	13	15	17
12	12	13	14	16	18
13	13	14	16	18	20
14	14	15	17	19	21
15	15	17	19	21	23
16	16	18	20	22	24
17	17	19	21	23	26
18	18	20	22	24	27

[Rigon]

JD, that's an interesting take on encumbrance. Something like that has crossed my mind also.

R-

[ThrorII]

Here's how we've been doing it for our game:

Str mod -3 = 0 lbs. base encumbrance rating
Str mod -2 = 10 lbs. base ER
Str mod -1 = 20 lbs. base ER
Str mod +0 = 35 lbs. base ER
Str mod +1 = 50 lbs. base ER
Str mod +2 = 75 lbs. base ER
Str mod +3 = 100 lbs. base ER

Not encumbered = base ER or less
Light = 2x ER (3/4 move rate, -1 to all dex checks & AC)
Mod = 3x ER (1/2 move rate, -2 to all dex checks & AC)
Heavy = 4x ER (1/4 move rate, -4 to all dex checks & AC)
Overburdened = over 4x ER (move 5' per round, -8 to all dex checks & AC)

The weights roughly match 1e and 2e AD&D and it keeps it simple for us.

[Treebore]

Here's how we've been doing it for our game:

Str mod -3 = 0 lbs. base encumbrance rating
Str mod -2 = 10 lbs. base ER
Str mod -1 = 20 lbs. base ER
Str mod +0 = 35 lbs. base ER
Str mod +1 = 50 lbs. base ER
Str mod +2 = 75 lbs. base ER
Str mod +3 = 100 lbs. base ER

Not encumbered = base ER or less
Light = 2x ER (3/4 move rate, -1 to all dex checks & AC)
Mod = 3x ER (1/2 move rate, -2 to all dex checks & AC)
Heavy = 4x ER (1/4 move rate, -4 to all dex checks & AC)
Overburdened = over 4x ER (move 5' per round, -8 to all dex checks & AC)

The weights roughly match 1e and 2e AD&D and it keeps it simple for us.

What do you use for how much the gear weighs/encumbers?

[Rigon]

Here's how we've been doing it for our game:

Str mod -3 = 0 lbs. base encumbrance rating
Str mod -2 = 10 lbs. base ER
Str mod -1 = 20 lbs. base ER
Str mod +0 = 35 lbs. base ER
Str mod +1 = 50 lbs. base ER
Str mod +2 = 75 lbs. base ER
Str mod +3 = 100 lbs. base ER

Not encumbered = base ER or less
Light = 2x ER (3/4 move rate, -1 to all dex checks & AC)
Mod = 3x ER (1/2 move rate, -2 to all dex checks & AC)
Heavy = 4x ER (1/4 move rate, -4 to all dex checks & AC)
Overburdened = over 4x ER (move 5' per round, -8 to all dex checks & AC)

The weights roughly match 1e and 2e AD&D and it keeps it simple for us.

That's actually quite nice. Let me ruminate on this one.

R-

[ThrorII]

What do you use for how much the gear weighs/encumbers?

PHB 3rd printing.

[Aramis]

I'm not a stickler for what people are carrying on them in game, as long as it is reasonable. And like I said, this has been creeping around the ol' noggin for a few weeks.

R-

My thoughts are: avoid encumbrance rules. That way lies madness. Fiddly, micro managed madness*.

The only times encumbrance should come up is when a weakling tries to wear heavy armour and a full pack (proposed quick rule: say no) or when the PCs have recovered a 6' gold succubus statue, or a magical +2 vorpal grand piano (additional proposed quick rule: say no)

*-also- avoid grappling rules at all cost

[Eisenmann]

Page two:

http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/uploads/pdf/Ch ... dhouse.pdf

[Arduin]

I don't know, I routinely saw the US Army make all of their soldiers haul around over 100 LBS packs, regardless of what their regs actually said. Yet they still wondered why so many were blowing out their knee's, etc...

I'm not saying it can't be carried. Just the break point where it affects move rate based on a persons str.

[Rigon]

I'm not a stickler for what people are carrying on them in game, as long as it is reasonable. And like I said, this has been creeping around the ol' noggin for a few weeks.

R-

My thoughts are: avoid encumbrance rules. That way lies madness. Fiddly, micro managed madness*.

The only times encumbrance should come up is when a weakling tries to wear heavy armour and a full pack (proposed quick rule: say no) or when the PCs have recovered a 6' gold succubus statue, or a magical +2 vorpal grand piano (additional proposed quick rule: say no)

*-also- avoid grappling rules at all cost

And that's how I usually run my games. I was just thinking that if I would ever want to include Encumbrance, I'd like some thing fairly simple and easy to use. I like how Thror does it, but I'm thinking I want something a little more simple. Something that says, "Either you are encumbered, or you're not." Maybe I'll try to blend Thror's and mine some how.

R-

[jdizzy001]

That is the whole point of my encumbered tracker, simplicity. If you carry more items than X, where x = your STR value, you're encumbered. Do you use disadvantage? If so, encumbered = roll disadvantage for physical type checks and you are slowed (1/2 movement). Or simpler yet, if you're encumbered, that's it, you cant carry anything more. Of course, option 2 does penalize a pc beyond, "sorry fighter guy, you cant carry that item, your pack is full."

[Captain_K]

Make them draw their PC with everything on it, in its place, even a stick figure works. Its a fun task for all when taking a pizza break or some such and the group votes (peer pressure) who has too much crap for their PC.. then they lighten the load as needed. If they won't do it willingly wait till they fail a save and their junk gets fried.... Play on. If PCs like detailed book keeping let them...

Most silly fun is dress up a person in all the junk, have them jump onto a chair or better still make one roll (shoulder or summersault) across the floor too really feel what too much stuff does to you..

[jdizzy001]

Make them draw their PC with everything on it, in its place, even a stick figure works. Its a fun task for all when taking a pizza break or some such and the group votes (peer pressure) who has too much crap for their PC.. then they lighten the load as needed. If they won't do it willingly wait till they fail a save and their junk gets fried.... Play on. If PCs like detailed book keeping let them...

Most silly fun is dress up a person in all the junk, have them jump onto a chair or better still make one roll (shoulder or summersault) across the floor too really feel what too much stuff does to you..

Best idea yet. A little unorthodox but a great idea.

[Lobo316]

Here's how we've been doing it for our game:

Str mod -3 = 0 lbs. base encumbrance rating
Str mod -2 = 10 lbs. base ER
Str mod -1 = 20 lbs. base ER
Str mod +0 = 35 lbs. base ER
Str mod +1 = 50 lbs. base ER
Str mod +2 = 75 lbs. base ER
Str mod +3 = 100 lbs. base ER

Not encumbered = base ER or less
Light = 2x ER (3/4 move rate, -1 to all dex checks & AC)
Mod = 3x ER (1/2 move rate, -2 to all dex checks & AC)
Heavy = 4x ER (1/4 move rate, -4 to all dex checks & AC)
Overburdened = over 4x ER (move 5' per round, -8 to all dex checks & AC)

The weights roughly match 1e and 2e AD&D and it keeps it simple for us.

We've been using the RAW, and it seems to work well enough, though I do like this.

I'm not "super hard core" on the encumbrance restrictions, but I do indeed, enforce them. To me, that's part of the game...making decisions on what to carry and what to leave behind. And my players pretty much police themselves, they are honest about it, and will tell me straight up "I'm not carrying a shield, cuz if I did, I'm be encumbered".

I like that. It's "role playing" not "stat playing". They don't want to be encumbered, they make a choice. I like the gritty, realistic (as far as fanasty games goes realistic), feel this adds to the game. It's another dimension of role playing.

If I wanted to run a montey haul campaign, where everyone is carrying a small house around with 'em, then I'd play a video game, lol. But, I like the fact that my PC's rouge wants to say "light on his feet", or be able to get in and out of places fast. Adds depth.

[Relaxo]

I havn't read this thread, but somewhere out there is a video of Steve and Davis talking encumbrance and they explain the RAW rules well, but also suit up davis in armor and a backpack and basically say, "hey, just eyeball it with common sense. can this guy carry a goat and a treasure chest right now? hmm?" maybe that too winging it for many...

[tylermo]

That's a classic video with Stephen, Mark, and the star of the show...Davis Chenault! I'm sure it's out there, but I can't remember the link. Classic stuff. Almost as funny as Davis going on about being the CEO of Troll Lord, then being pelted (from off screen) by an empty, flying Dr. Pepper box. Another classic TLG video.

[Treebore]

Probably linked through their blog. Then again, those videos may pre date their blog.

Yeah, there are two things my players are probably over doing it on with regards to what they are carrying. Coin, and number of weapons. Potions are probably their next biggest "offense".

I should just make them all have a pack mule, or two, and then pick what set of armor, which 3 weapons, and which 6 potions they have on their person, then assume everything else is normally carried on the pack animal. Wizards/spellcasters can count Staves and Wands as weapons.

[Arduin]

I havn't read this thread, but somewhere out there is a video of Steve and Davis talking encumbrance and they explain the RAW rules well, but also suit up davis in armor and a backpack and basically say, "hey, just eyeball it with common sense. can this guy carry a goat and a treasure chest right now? hmm?" maybe that too winging it for many...

It isn't as much a question of what can be carried as, what can be carried fairly easily.