Racial weapon skills

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koralas
Ulthal
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Racial weapon skills

Post by koralas »

muneshige wrote:Again, I think you are still underestimating how much is biological. I could certainly see moving more quietly or hiding better as being something with biological or cultural roots that need not be the results of decades of training.

After all, Halflings start off much younger than Elves and they are much better at hiding and moving silently. When I conceptualized a more PC-balanced Goblin, I gave them the same abilities as well as one that allowed them to survive out in the middle of the wild better than humans because well.. I figured if they didn't have those abilities, they wouldn't have survived for even the 10 years or so it takes them to become an adult.

Resistance to spells strikes me as necessarily biological... If it wasn't then everyone could learn the Elven spell resistance.

Again, the only abilities I see on the Elf that seem necessarily part of special training are the sword and bow... and I am not even sure about the bow because if they live primarily by game-hunting, they have legitimate reason to learn to use a bow from the time they are old enough to walk. But... as a race that is not heavily strict and militarized in regards to the upbringing of children nor is at constant war with others, it is odd for them to be universally trained in weapons.
+1 to this, but also...

Elves (and other demi- and non-humans) grow and mature at a different rate from humans. Consider the Elf is considered Mature at 500, while a human at 35. That means elves, in comparison age at 7% the rate of a human in their early years, and at a lower rate as they continue to age.. Thus a 20 year old elf would be the equivalent of of a human at 15 months. At 100 years old, they are the human equivalent of a 7 year old. Consider that a human fighter might begin his adventuring career as early as 16, that is the elven equivalent of 228. This could be even older if you add another age category like young adult, in which case they would age at a slower rate, maybe around 8-9% as a child, then 7% as a young adult, 5% from Mature - Old, an 4.5% from Old - Venerable.

koralas
Ulthal
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Racial weapon skills

Post by koralas »

Arduin wrote:
muneshige wrote: Resistance to spells strikes me as necessarily biological... If it wasn't then everyone could learn the Elven spell resistance.
They can. Just start at age 2 and practice for 98 years straight. It's just a matter of ROI whether one considers it worthwhile to do AND if you have an elf that will teach you.
Really, how does one "practice" resistance to a meta-physical force?

Also see my previous post. Elves grow and mature at a much slower rate than a human.

Fizz
Lore Drake
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Racial weapon skills

Post by Fizz »

muneshige wrote:Again, I think you are still underestimating how much is biological.
But if you take the biological route, you're assuming that all races mature and learn at the same rates. Maybe the biology of elves is entirely slowed down. Perhaps an elf is not an adult at age 20- they're only an adult elf at (say) 100 human years. Maybe a 50-year old elf has only the wisdom / knowledge of a 10-year old human. Their entire development is slowed down.

Thus a new adult elf at 100 years is first level, just like a 20 year old human. (Or whatever relative ages you want to use.)


-Fizz

Fizz
Lore Drake
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Racial weapon skills

Post by Fizz »

I use the -3. If an elf wizard uses a long sword, he attacks with a modifier of BtH + Str - 4 + 1.

Why? Because i have treated the modifiers as natural skill. There is something inherent in elven physiology that makes them more adept with a sword (or bow) than other races. BtH values and proficiency results from training. But since he's a wizard, he has not undergone such training. So he's -4 + 1 for a net -3.

Now, if you want to take the position that such bonuses are not biological but are cultural, that's ok too. You just have to modify special cases accordingly. IE, a human born and raised amongs elves might have the +1 to long swords and bows should also have that +1 (since he's been culturally immersed in it his whole life). Conversely, an elf who was raised among humans might not have the bonus to bows and swords.

So really, it depends on what you decide is the cause of the bonus. Neither way is wrong. But for me, i like to keep natural and training as two separate things.


-Fizz

muneshige
Skobbit
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Racial weapon skills

Post by muneshige »

Fizz wrote:
muneshige wrote:Again, I think you are still underestimating how much is biological.
But if you take the biological route, you're assuming that all races mature and learn at the same rates. Maybe the biology of elves is entirely slowed down. Perhaps an elf is not an adult at age 20- they're only an adult elf at (say) 100 human years. Maybe a 50-year old elf has only the wisdom / knowledge of a 10-year old human. Their entire development is slowed down.

Thus a new adult elf at 100 years is first level, just like a 20 year old human. (Or whatever relative ages you want to use.)


-Fizz
You know though... if we are talking pure biology?... The idea that a race would be a young child for even longer is actually extraordinarily scary. You might be used to thinking of children as dumb, but... the truth is quite the opposite. A baby can go from having no conception of a language system to being able to speak fairly fluently within what... a year? two to three to generally master the language all together?

I mean, imagine trying to learn a language very different from your own-- Sawhilli or Chinese or something-- without a translator, without books to guide you on your path. Just people around you speaking the language and you are somehow to just totally get it.

Seriously, someone who got to remain in a state of having that sort of fluid brain structure that can absorb and imprint information like mad would be considerably more intelligent than any normal person.

Of course, assuming the whole "elves don't sleep and certainly don't dream" concept carries over, that alone probably explains everything. Sleeping, dreaming in particular, is the time when the brain really processes and imprints information the best. If you study or work at a task for a while and then get a good 8 hours sleep, you will be better at the task than if you had spent that 8 hours continually practicing.

If Elves don't ever get to do that, they would be absolutely terrible at absorbing new information, they would take forever to get better and they would probably forget damn near everything that happened more than a couple years earlier since it wouldn't have left much of an imprint on their mind.

Fizz
Lore Drake
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Racial weapon skills

Post by Fizz »

If Elves don't ever get to do that, they would be absolutely terrible at absorbing new information,
Perhaps they take a hundred years for their brain to fully mature, and from that point on they're the same as humans. Nothing says the process has to be linear with the human experience. We are talking about a fantasy race in a fantastical magical world. Normal rules of human biology need not apply.

-Fizz

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