Falling Damage

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?

User avatar
Rigon
Clang lives!
Posts: 7202
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Rigon »

Lobo316 wrote:Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?
No and no. Falling is deadly, so be careful.

R-
Castles & Crusades: What 3rd Edition AD&D should have been.
TLG Forum Moderator
House Rules & Whatnots
My Game Threads
Monday Night Online Group Member since 2007

User avatar
Arduin
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm
Location: Granite quarry

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Arduin »

Lobo316 wrote:Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?
Nope. Although I DO allow a Dex check if intentionally jumping 20' or less. (to avoid damage).
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

House Rules

alcyone
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2727
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
Location: The Court of the Crimson King

Re: Falling Damage

Post by alcyone »

I'd allow a saving throw if you have a parachute.
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com

User avatar
Arduin
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm
Location: Granite quarry

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Arduin »

Aergraith wrote:I'd allow a saving throw if you have a parachute.
:lol:
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

House Rules

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

I've not been allowing a save on those myself, but got to thinking if anyone was allowing them, how were they doing it. And this brings me to an "issue" with the rules...

In the PHB, it's stated "For every ten feet fallen, the number of d6 used for damage increases by one. The damage for each 10
feet fallen is cumulative. For example, if a character falls 18 feet, they take 1d6 damage for the first ten feet and 2d6 damage for the next 10 feet for a total of 3d6 damage."

And that's an 18 foot fall....3d6 damage. ouch! Brutal...maybe. Clear...definatley.

But, then we get to the CKG, where under traps (page 139, the Pit Traps).

Pit Trap CL1 is listed with 1d6 per 10 feet the standard??
Pit Trap CL3 is listed as "30 feet deep" and causing 3d6 falling damage??

<blinks>

SO, which is it supposed to be? Is it 1d6 per 10 feet, or is it the "culmative" +1d6 for the first ten feet + 2d6 for the next ten + 3d6 for the next, ten, etc, etc.

I don't mind the tried and true D6 per 10ft (C&C is pretty brutal in that aspect), so if the falling damage in the CKG is supposed to overwrite (or update) the falling damage in the PHB, that's OK, but is that clarified anywhere?

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

Aergraith wrote:I'd allow a saving throw if you have a parachute.

Nice! :D

User avatar
Arduin
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm
Location: Granite quarry

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Arduin »

Lobo316 wrote: SO, which is it supposed to be? Is it 1d6 per 10 feet, or is it the "culmative" +1d6 for the first ten feet + 2d6 for the next ten + 3d6 for the next, ten, etc, etc.
I really don't know which it is supposed to be but, I use 1D6 for every 10'. NOT cumulative. I find that to be plenty dangerous.
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

House Rules

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

Arduin wrote:
Lobo316 wrote: SO, which is it supposed to be? Is it 1d6 per 10 feet, or is it the "culmative" +1d6 for the first ten feet + 2d6 for the next ten + 3d6 for the next, ten, etc, etc.
I really don't know which it is supposed to be but, I use 1D6 for every 10'. NOT cumulative. I find that to be plenty dangerous.
And, as I eluded to above, I agree with you. :D That culmative thing just seems overkill. I don't mind it, mind you, but I do think it is a bit brutal.

Also, I'm not sure if I'll change that or not, but it's definatley something I'm aware of.

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

Arduin wrote:
Lobo316 wrote:Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?
Nope. Although I DO allow a Dex check if intentionally jumping 20' or less. (to avoid damage).
BTW, I do like this ruling, at least for rangers, rogues, assassins and barbarians. And probably only when wearing light armor. Something you can move and roll in to absorb the impact.

I'd even go so far as to say whether intentional or not allow the save (or maybe just the above classes can make this save whether intentional or not).

User avatar
kreider204
Unkbartig
Posts: 830
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:01 pm
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: Falling Damage

Post by kreider204 »

Rigon wrote:
Lobo316 wrote:Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?
No and no. Falling is deadly, so be careful.

R-
I'm with Rigon. The randomness of the damage roll already accounts for luck (good or bad ... ), but it's not like a character can dodge or resist the ground ...

(Unless you're talking about special abilities of some sort. Like the magic power that cats have.)

User avatar
Arduin
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm
Location: Granite quarry

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Arduin »

Lobo316 wrote:
Arduin wrote:
Lobo316 wrote:Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?
Nope. Although I DO allow a Dex check if intentionally jumping 20' or less. (to avoid damage).
BTW, I do like this ruling, at least for rangers, rogues, assassins and barbarians. And probably only when wearing light armor. Something you can move and roll in to absorb the impact.

I'd even go so far as to say whether intentional or not allow the save (or maybe just the above classes can make this save whether intentional or not).
Ya, you can dice that one a lot. Give a minus if encumbered (more weight for the legs to handle), etc.
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

House Rules

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

kreider204 wrote:
Rigon wrote:
Lobo316 wrote:Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?
No and no. Falling is deadly, so be careful.

R-
I'm with Rigon. The randomness of the damage roll already accounts for luck (good or bad ... ), but it's not like a character can dodge or resist the ground ...

(Unless you're talking about special abilities of some sort. Like the magic power that cats have.)
Agreed, but do you do "by the book", or simply a straight 1d6 per 10 feet?

User avatar
kreider204
Unkbartig
Posts: 830
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:01 pm
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: Falling Damage

Post by kreider204 »

Lobo316 wrote:
kreider204 wrote:
Rigon wrote:
Lobo316 wrote:Do you allow saving throws to reduce falling damage? If so, do you restrict (penalize) these saves by armor type worn, or grant bonuses to certain classes on these saves?
No and no. Falling is deadly, so be careful.

R-
I'm with Rigon. The randomness of the damage roll already accounts for luck (good or bad ... ), but it's not like a character can dodge or resist the ground ...

(Unless you're talking about special abilities of some sort. Like the magic power that cats have.)
Agreed, but do you do "by the book", or simply a straight 1d6 per 10 feet?
Just 1d6 per 10'.

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

Thanks for the input folks!

User avatar
Buttmonkey
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2031
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Buttmonkey »

It's been cumulative since I started playing 1E back in the day, and it's still cumulative as far as I'm concerned. The accumulation is a product of acceleration. I would give the PC a break and stop adding more damage dice when they hit terminal velocity, but I'm a softie.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

User avatar
Arduin
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm
Location: Granite quarry

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Arduin »

Buttmonkey wrote:It's been cumulative since I started playing 1E back in the day, and it's still cumulative as far as I'm concerned. The accumulation is a product of acceleration. I would give the PC a break and stop adding more damage dice when they hit terminal velocity, but I'm a softie.
That's about a fall of 1,500' and the speed (spread eagle) is about 120mph.
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

House Rules

User avatar
Litzen Tallister
Red Cap
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:20 pm

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Litzen Tallister »

Falling should be brutal, as has been said the ground knows no mercy. I would allow a dex check for managing to do something to stop or slow their fall (grabbing at a scraggly tree clinging to a hill side, aiming for the pile of hay in the farmer's field, etc.).

alcyone
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2727
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
Location: The Court of the Crimson King

Re: Falling Damage

Post by alcyone »

Actually, I've changed my mind. Mostly the falling won't do any damage at all.

Now, *landing* damage, that is pretty serious.
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com

User avatar
Fiffergrund
Lore Drake
Posts: 1082
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Fiffergrund »

Aergraith wrote:Actually, I've changed my mind. Mostly the falling won't do any damage at all.

Now, *landing* damage, that is pretty serious.
That's the worst part, but the good thing is that it is over quickly.
Marshal Fiffergrund, Knight-Errant of the Castle and Crusade Society

User avatar
kreider204
Unkbartig
Posts: 830
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:01 pm
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: Falling Damage

Post by kreider204 »

Aergraith wrote:Actually, I've changed my mind. Mostly the falling won't do any damage at all.

Now, *landing* damage, that is pretty serious.
"It's not the fall; it's the sudden stop at the end ... "

User avatar
Traveller
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2023
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Traveller »

Just to clear up any confusion Lobo may have, the CKG is wrong and the PHB correct. The falling damage is cumulative and, even better, has no cap like AD&D. If it wasn't, a high level fighter could deliberately jump off a cliff and survive. It happened all the time in AD&D, until TSR addressed the issue.

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

Traveller wrote:Just to clear up any confusion Lobo may have, the CKG is wrong and the PHB correct. The falling damage is cumulative and, even better, has no cap like AD&D. If it wasn't, a high level fighter could deliberately jump off a cliff and survive. It happened all the time in AD&D, until TSR addressed the issue.

Ok, you have convinced me, i don't need to mess with that, falling should hurt...bad (the high level fighter example is a good example).

I'm still goin to use the idea inspired by Arduin on saves from up to 20ft though, at least for rangers, rogues, barbarians and assassins When wearing no/light armor. I just like the flavor.

User avatar
Relaxo
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 3350
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Relaxo »

yeah the trolls have made it clear its the cumulative version.
I thought it was not cumulative in 2nd ed, but I may not be recalling it correctly.(not that it matters)
and no save.

I also dig the 20' houserule, though.
Bill D.
Author: Yarr! Rules-Light Pirate RPG
BD Games - www.playBDgames.com
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.ph ... rs_id=5781

tylermo
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by tylermo »

First off...thanks to whomever pointed out the "falling" discrepencies between the phb and the ckg. I'll try to add that to the ckg errata thread later. If one you beats me to it, that's great. The ckg is the next book in line for a reprinting, and we want to fix as much as possible before then. Anyway....

In a recent game, my players were using a grappling hook and rope to climb a 20 foot wall. For those who didn't have climb as a class ability, they didn't add their level. Either way, most of them made their rolls each time. However, when a couple of them failed their second roll, I allowed them a dexterity save to grab the rope to keep from falling. I don't think it was unreasonable given the use of rope and a grappling hook. Any thoughts?

User avatar
Arduin
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm
Location: Granite quarry

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Arduin »

Traveller wrote: The falling damage is cumulative and, even better, has no cap like AD&D.
You'll want to cap it after 1,500'. As if that'll make a difference :o
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

House Rules

User avatar
Buttmonkey
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2031
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Buttmonkey »

tylermo wrote:In a recent game, my players were using a grappling hook and rope to climb a 20 foot wall. For those who didn't have climb as a class ability, they didn't add their level. Either way, most of them made their rolls each time. However, when a couple of them failed their second roll, I allowed them a dexterity save to grab the rope to keep from falling. I don't think it was unreasonable given the use of rope and a grappling hook. Any thoughts?
My instinct would be to not require a SIEGE check at all. These are adventurers. Climbing a 20 foot rope isn't that much of a challenge. We climbed way higher than that in gym class when I was a kid and no one fell. Granted, we weren't wearing armor and carrying gear, but we also weren't professional adventurers.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

tylermo wrote:First off...thanks to whomever pointed out the "falling" discrepencies between the phb and the ckg. I'll try to add that to the ckg errata thread later. If one you beats me to it, that's great. The ckg is the next book in line for a reprinting, and we want to fix as much as possible before then. Anyway....

In a recent game, my players were using a grappling hook and rope to climb a 20 foot wall. For those who didn't have climb as a class ability, they didn't add their level. Either way, most of them made their rolls each time. However, when a couple of them failed their second roll, I allowed them a dexterity save to grab the rope to keep from falling. I don't think it was unreasonable given the use of rope and a grappling hook. Any thoughts?
I would not have required any rolls myself, since were talking a simple 20ft climb with a rope. Now, where I would require a roll is if the climb was made under duress (being chased by guards, escaping a raging troll, etc) or, if they were trying to climb "stealthily". But, to answer your question, allowing a DEX save to grab the rope was not out of line at all. In fact, I'd do the same thing, I just would not bother with rolls unless the climb was higher. How much higher depends on the CK and the situation. For me, likley climbs beyond the 20ft mark.

User avatar
Relaxo
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 3350
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Relaxo »

Buttmonkey wrote:
tylermo wrote:In a recent game, my players were using a grappling hook and rope to climb a 20 foot wall. For those who didn't have climb as a class ability, they didn't add their level. Either way, most of them made their rolls each time. However, when a couple of them failed their second roll, I allowed them a dexterity save to grab the rope to keep from falling. I don't think it was unreasonable given the use of rope and a grappling hook. Any thoughts?
My instinct would be to not require a SIEGE check at all. These are adventurers. Climbing a 20 foot rope isn't that much of a challenge. We climbed way higher than that in gym class when I was a kid and no one fell. Granted, we weren't wearing armor and carrying gear, but we also weren't professional adventurers.
Nor did you have Goblins firing arrows at you that you were trying to dodge while climbing... or if you did, that's a f'ed up school. :D
Bill D.
Author: Yarr! Rules-Light Pirate RPG
BD Games - www.playBDgames.com
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.ph ... rs_id=5781

User avatar
Lobo316
Ulthal
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am

Re: Falling Damage

Post by Lobo316 »

tylermo wrote:First off...thanks to whomever pointed out the "falling" discrepencies between the phb and the ckg. I'll try to add that to the ckg errata thread later. If one you beats me to it, that's great. The ckg is the next book in line for a reprinting, and we want to fix as much as possible before then. Anyway....

In a recent game, my players were using a grappling hook and rope to climb a 20 foot wall. For those who didn't have climb as a class ability, they didn't add their level. Either way, most of them made their rolls each time. However, when a couple of them failed their second roll, I allowed them a dexterity save to grab the rope to keep from falling. I don't think it was unreasonable given the use of rope and a grappling hook. Any thoughts?
I put this in the CKG Errata thread...

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12090

Post Reply