I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

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I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Treebore »

I had my doubts with it at $45,000.00, but now that its been dropped to $40,000.00, I am very confident it will be achieved, so I will be upping my pledge to $99 on the first of next month, once I confirm what my finances should look like for that month.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Snoring Rock »

I went in at $99. My group may decide they need new books too so we may move to the $199 level.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Omote »

Can anybody confirm that there are edits and errata being put into these books? I mean, TLG locked the M&T errata thread. Guys, hit up TLG and make sure they include all the errata they can. Make these color copies of the books the best they can be. Don't let TLG sit on their hands with this one!

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Omote »

I asked this question quite bluntly on the Kickstarter comments page. Let's see what TLG has to say about it.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Omote »

Quoted from Kickstarter a few minutes ago:
Stephen Chenault wrote:Omote,
Glad yo asked! There is so much flow of information that I forget what has been said and what hasn't...we are prepping a Troll's Tusk for tomorrow that will address a bit of this.

But in the Players Handbook we opened that thread and I would say about 90% of the material mentioned was corrected or amended. That thread is still on the forums and each piece of information in there was marked with what was changed and how. I'll try to find a link. Also some minor changes were made: turns were changed to minutes, as minutes are turns anyway, the paladin smite evil was expanded to 1 round per level, and a few small things like that.

Monsters & Treasure. We had a forum open to this but it got very cantankerous and I had to lock it. I haven't had time to get back over there and address the issue but will in due course. But we have hired Steve Ege (traveler on the forums) to take the M&T and bring the whole book up to speed with the PH, give it a tight edit and bring it generally in line. This book's layout will not change, but it will be in color. The first 20 odd pics are already finished.

Steve Ege will begin work on the CKG upon finishing the M&T with the same objectives, to make sure that it lines up with the other books. That one has a few inconsistances in the application of it (dragons in the encounter charts are off, things of that nature). Steve's task will be to tighten up the text, another round of edits and bring anything in line with the other books.

So in short, all three books will have a good clean edit. Of course to be clear these books are not riddled with editorial mistakes, just small snafus here and there. But these are being tackled.

I hope that addresses the issue.
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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Arduin »

Omote wrote:Quoted from Kickstarter a few minutes ago:
Stephen Chenault wrote: But we have hired Steve (traveler on the forums) to take the M&T and bring the whole book up to speed with the PH, give it a tight edit and bring it generally in line. This book's layout will not change, but it will be in color. The first 20 odd pics are already finished.

Steve Ege will begin work on the CKG upon finishing the M&T with the same objectives, to make sure that it lines up with the other books. That one has a few inconsistencies in the application of it (dragons in the encounter charts are off, things of that nature). Steve's task will be to tighten up the text, another round of edits and bring anything in line with the other books.
Sounds good! But, I hope that the totally unusable carrying capacities in the CGK gets attention. Otherwise, not worth a repurchase. I'm sure Trav will do good on the M&T book.
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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by exoknight »

I backed the kickstarter at $99.00. Looking forward to full color. Plus the bonus items are pretty good for someone who doesn't own those adventures.
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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Rigon »

I expect I'll get in on this at $45 level, as I really only use the PHB and M&T and don't see a need for the CKG. I just need to see how much I have left after my bills are paid.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by GreyLord »

Well, if this thread is talking about the KS (and I think it is) I just went max level in. The entire KS is about $46 away from next post needed for Arms and Armor...

Well, I guess I did my part...at least as much as I could.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by dachda »

Just hit the $35,000 mark!!

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by exoknight »

40k is easy. I think this one might break 50k by the end.
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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Troll Lord »

Arduin wrote:
Omote wrote:Quoted from Kickstarter a few minutes ago:
Stephen Chenault wrote: But we have hired Steve (traveler on the forums) to take the M&T and bring the whole book up to speed with the PH, give it a tight edit and bring it generally in line. This book's layout will not change, but it will be in color. The first 20 odd pics are already finished.

Steve Ege will begin work on the CKG upon finishing the M&T with the same objectives, to make sure that it lines up with the other books. That one has a few inconsistencies in the application of it (dragons in the encounter charts are off, things of that nature). Steve's task will be to tighten up the text, another round of edits and bring anything in line with the other books.
Sounds good! But, I hope that the totally unusable carrying capacities in the CGK gets attention. Otherwise, not worth a repurchase. I'm sure Trav will do good on the M&T book.
We haven't begun working on the CKG yet. M&T first. But we will get some type of avenue up for you guys to pitch in and help. It will most likely be through the Knights or the Society. Tim's been hammering on those pages like nuts.

But I do think we are going to make it.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Arduin »

Troll Lord wrote:
Arduin wrote:
Sounds good! But, I hope that the totally unusable carrying capacities in the CGK gets attention. Otherwise, not worth a repurchase. I'm sure Trav will do good on the M&T book.
We haven't begun working on the CKG yet. M&T first. But we will get some type of avenue up for you guys to pitch in and help. It will most likely be through the Knights or the Society. Tim's been hammering on those pages like nuts.

But I do think we are going to make it.

Trollzah!
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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by gabriellyon »

Dunh Dunh Dah and low the prophecy comes true. I also did something I never thought I would and that was to actually fund my first kickstarter. At the 7.5 all leather level even. Ok trolls, please please please with powdered goblin giblets on top, make this one shine. As an added incentive to get everything perfect, for each mistake we find we will pull a hair out of a dwarfs beard. Thank you as well.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Treebore »

Passing $45,000 AND exceeding 400 backers is close at hand! Love the new Aufstrag add ons, about time the Trolls found something to get their butts in gear on Aufstrag. I've only been waiting 9 years for it!
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Treebore »

exoknight wrote:40k is easy. I think this one might break 50k by the end.
Its sure looking like you may be right, 4 days to go, and less than $40 shy of $45,000, plus we are over 400 backers. It sure will be cool if they hit $50,000 anyways. I am very tempted to add the $81 to get the leather versions. I just don't have enough faith that the Trolls will get the editing done right. :lol:
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Snoring Rock »

The Trolls just passed 400 backers and 45K!!

WooHoo!

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by gabriellyon »

Treebore wrote:
exoknight wrote:40k is easy. I think this one might break 50k by the end.
Its sure looking like you may be right, 4 days to go, and less than $40 shy of $45,000, plus we are over 400 backers. It sure will be cool if they hit $50,000 anyways. I am very tempted to add the $81 to get the leather versions. I just don't have enough faith that the Trolls will get the editing done right. :lol:
And here I was trying not to worry about making the decision to get the leather. :?

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Treebore »

gabriellyon wrote:
Treebore wrote:
exoknight wrote:40k is easy. I think this one might break 50k by the end.
Its sure looking like you may be right, 4 days to go, and less than $40 shy of $45,000, plus we are over 400 backers. It sure will be cool if they hit $50,000 anyways. I am very tempted to add the $81 to get the leather versions. I just don't have enough faith that the Trolls will get the editing done right. :lol:
And here I was trying not to worry about making the decision to get the leather. :?
Yeah, I know they are specifically addressing these issues, but after so many screw ups, over so many years, I am now concerned that I would get the leathers, and not only would there be a bunch of new errata, but now I have to wonder how many blank pages will show up! :lol:

I'll be $81 less upset with normal books if any of that were to happen!
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by gabriellyon »

I know the trolls track record should leave me much more skeptical and conservative and I maybe should have just went with the $99 pledge but just this once I really want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Will I be disappointed if the leathers come out and are no better than the current books? Very much so. It might even be enough to swear off new troll products and play with what we have, but what I really want is a polished product that lives up to the trolls promise and to see an exciting future of new releases from them that I look forward to adding to our ongoing games. All we can do now is wait and see. That is usually the hardest part.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by timburns »

Kickstarter Poll: As you may know, we are offering a Dice Cup at $50K and we hope to get there today. But we need your help in deciding which one. Vote for which one you like best: http://bit.ly/1oD9YWl

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Troll Lord »

I think we managed a fantastic good job on the fifth printing. There are precious few editing mistakes in there, and most of those are simple things like a font is off here or there, a comma missing (which is subjective to begin with) or trouble with the formatting which we did in order to keep the page count under control and the price point down.

But even beyond that, at no point has the game's playability been questioned. The Siege Engine has not been altered or adjusted since its publication in 2004. Its a blessed good game, and the fifth printing is an absolutely superb book. Its not broken, its well presented and laid out (I still prefer the 1st printing layout myself) and I have no qualms about selling it, playing it or recommending it.

Blank pages in the HH were an over site on my part. It has nothing to do with our editors, layout guys or anyone else, other than me, so kindly do not hold the company or its employees accountable for what happened in that book.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Snoring Rock »

Trollzah!

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

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Troll Lord wrote:I think we managed a fantastic good job on the fifth printing. There are precious few editing mistakes in there, and most of those are simple things like a font is off here or there, a comma missing (which is subjective to begin with) or trouble with the formatting which we did in order to keep the page count under control and the price point down.

But even beyond that, at no point has the game's playability been questioned. The Siege Engine has not been altered or adjusted since its publication in 2004. Its a blessed good game, and the fifth printing is an absolutely superb book. Its not broken, its well presented and laid out (I still prefer the 1st printing layout myself) and I have no qualms about selling it, playing it or recommending it.

Blank pages in the HH were an over site on my part. It has nothing to do with our editors, layout guys or anyone else, other than me, so kindly do not hold the company or its employees accountable for what happened in that book.

Thanks gents.

Steve Chenault
Yeah, the only product I consider the editing to have effected play ability is the Tainted Lands boxed set.

I'll talk to my wife, see if she is OK with me "risking" going leather, especially since this will be the last printing I ever buy. 20 PH's, 5 M&T's, and 2 CKG's are more than enough of any RPG. My wife has justifiably become concerned over how much money I spend on RPG's, so I have been working with her to curtail my spending to more reasonable levels. Hundreds per month, every month, is ridiculous. Even I can admit that.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by alcyone »

Is the leather genuine? I like the idea of books that look like leather, but I have been trying to avoid buying animal products for clothing or decoration if I can avoid it, and would actually prefer some kind of faux leather.
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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Omote »

Troll Lord wrote:I think we managed a fantastic good job on the fifth printing. There are precious few editing mistakes in there, and most of those are simple things like a font is off here or there, a comma missing (which is subjective to begin with) or trouble with the formatting which we did in order to keep the page count under control and the price point down.

But even beyond that, at no point has the game's playability been questioned. The Siege Engine has not been altered or adjusted since its publication in 2004. Its a blessed good game, and the fifth printing is an absolutely superb book. Its not broken, its well presented and laid out (I still prefer the 1st printing layout myself) and I have no qualms about selling it, playing it or recommending it.

Blank pages in the HH were an over site on my part. It has nothing to do with our editors, layout guys or anyone else, other than me, so kindly do not hold the company or its employees accountable for what happened in that book.

Thanks gents.

Steve Chenault
Most of the concerns that come up regarding this new printing have nothing to do with the Siege Engine mechanic, or altering the fundimental aspects of the game. The fans know, C&C is not changing the game. TLG has been pretty clear that the game will remain unaltered. What is happening here, is that there are die-hard Crusaders who spend their money on new printing after new printing. Buying books that arguably they don't need. But, those die-hard Crusaders do expect something from the new printings they are investing in. What I believe many people have been asking for is minor editing update, but more specifically, more clarifications on things that the modern Crusader needs to know. For example, spell clarifications. The spells in C&C are an awesome selection (I personally think the perfect selections) for the base C&C game. But many of the spells, are not quite crystal clear. Or, the amount of gray area makes arguments at the table more prevalent. Crusaders want this game to shine, and be perfect. The Crusaders are the ones selling this game to others at their tables, or on message boards. The die-hards, the people who keep getting back into the game with each new printing expect more, and deserve more each time. The Crusaders are the banner bearers of this game. And shall always be so.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Traveller »

Just to give an update on Monsters & Treasure progress. I am basically finished with the monsters and am making my way through the magic items. Once done with magic items, I need to make a second pass through the monsters in order to make sure all the gotchas you guys found are corrected. While I got through the first pass of the monsters relatively quickly, in about a week, much of that time was spent recalculating the XP for most of the monsters in the book.

The XP of the monsters was never something discussed in all the errata discussions of the last decade. Doing the math based upon the rules given on page 6 of the 3d printing, the figures given for most of the monsters are inaccurate, which I believe is caused by the rules on page 6 being too vague. Granted that in most cases we're talking a difference of up to +/- 300XP, which isn't too bad, but there are some that are really out there, including Castles & Crusades' flagship monster.

Prysmal Eyes are woefully undervalued in the book, to the tune of about 30%.

Fixing the XP for monsters is but one thing in trying to make this game better, but providing more comprehensive lists of what is a special and what type of special it is will go a long way to clear up things. I have those more comprehensive lists, made when as I worked on the XP figures, so that when it comes time to determine the XP of an ancient red dragon and its treasure hoard of 60,000 chocolate-centered gold pieces that the party just defeated, there's less guesswork involved and less handwaving.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

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Traveller wrote:Just to give an update on Monsters & Treasure progress.
<snip>

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by Troll Lord »

Omote wrote:
Most of the concerns that come up regarding this new printing have nothing to do with the Siege Engine mechanic, or altering the fundimental aspects of the game. The fans know, C&C is not changing the game. TLG has been pretty clear that the game will remain unaltered. What is happening here, is that there are die-hard Crusaders who spend their money on new printing after new printing. Buying books that arguably they don't need. But, those die-hard Crusaders do expect something from the new printings they are investing in. What I believe many people have been asking for is minor editing update, but more specifically, more clarifications on things that the modern Crusader needs to know. For example, spell clarifications. The spells in C&C are an awesome selection (I personally think the perfect selections) for the base C&C game. But many of the spells, are not quite crystal clear. Or, the amount of gray area makes arguments at the table more prevalent. Crusaders want this game to shine, and be perfect. The Crusaders are the ones selling this game to others at their tables, or on message boards. The die-hards, the people who keep getting back into the game with each new printing expect more, and deserve more each time. The Crusaders are the banner bearers of this game. And shall always be so.

~O
You are correct sir! There are hosts of people who put a whole lot of blood, sweat, tears, time and money into Castles & Crusades and because of this its a fantastic game, I would argue the most versatile and gamer friendly on the market today. Bar none.

Concerning the new printing and the concerns that veterans of the game have raised (I like that term much better than die-hard, it makes you look grizzled! haha) you've mentioned your concerns about the few clarifications and changes in this latest printing several times and I must confess, that's had me confused, because I posted them all publicly. But it occurs to me that I unlocked that thread and it rolled off down the thread bank as these things are want to do.

For this I apologize.

But to put your concerns to rest, each change posted on that discussion was addressed by me in that forum. You can read them in red, in each individual post, here: Players Handbook Six. I did the same thing on the google document here however there, I only put my comments in red if the change did not go in.

Now to be very clear, some things were not changed that veterans wanted changed, and these Mac or Davis or myself deemed would remove the CKs wiggle room in adjudicating a spell or ability. I know it may seem like a design flaw, but some things were written as they were for a reason (we made no changes on the invisibility spells for instance).

I hope that clears that up my friend.

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Re: I think the "Sisters" will make it to "Full color"...

Post by alcyone »

Troll Lord wrote: Now to be very clear, some things were not changed that veterans wanted changed, and these Mac or Davis or myself deemed would remove the CKs wiggle room in adjudicating a spell or ability. I know it may seem like a design flaw, but some things were written as they were for a reason (we made no changes on the invisibility spells for instance).
If each word in the book is the one you actually wanted there, that's good enough for me.
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