Training -- How do you handle this?

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Snoring Rock
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Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by Snoring Rock »

This has been discussed many times I am sure. It has been ambiguous sine day one in OD&D, AD&D, you name it.

Do you require training to level up and if so, how do you qualify the trainer, and the cost? Sometimes, the party gets enough EXP to level up mid-dungeon. If you require training, they all sheath the swords and wands and vacate the dungeon to go get leveled up. That kills the action.

But just leveling up does not make sense.

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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by Rigon »

When I give XP, I usually give it after an adventure has been completed and there has been some downtime for self-reflection by the PCs. The name alone, Experience Points, tells me that individual experiences make the PCs grow. No training required.

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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by Omote »

I let players train their characters if they want to. The training follows a number of weeks as indicated in the PHB. The cost is 100GP x level to be attained. The benefit of training is, that the PC can reroll their HP roll, train for weapon mastery, and perhaps increase an attribute or gain a skill. This is dependent on the type of training area found. Big cities, and military training grounds offer the best chances to increase something particular. Or, the PC may want to pick up a specific skill (like basketweaving) which wouldn't normally be found near proving grounds.

The PC can train in a village, hamlet, fort, etc. but those places may have limited training resources. For example, a warrior ready to train to 10th level training in a hamlet of 20 ppl, none of which are warriors I would not allow. The neat thing is that tiny villages and the like might harbor a single master longbow user, or a grandmaster jewelsmith. If the character wants to train in those, well that is fine.

More often than not the PCs want to train on the road in the middle of an adventure. For this, I consider that the PCs are in a constant training mode. I let the PCs just up their level in the middle of the adventure, gaining the 1HD and gaining the class ability. When training on the road, there is no additional gaining of skills, weapon mastery, skills, etc.

Under this system the benefits of training are huge, but based on the consequences of the campaign, training might not be practical.

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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by Arduin »

Snoring Rock wrote:This has been discussed many times I am sure. It has been ambiguous sine day one in OD&D, AD&D, you name it.

Do you require training to level up and if so, how do you qualify the trainer, and the cost? Sometimes, the party gets enough EXP to level up mid-dungeon. If you require training, they all sheath the swords and wands and vacate the dungeon to go get leveled up. That kills the action.

But just leveling up does not make sense.
I have them level after they are back "at base" and have rested for a couple of weeks. Taken time to reflect, maybe practice new abilities, etc. Nothing formal or costing money.

I don't award XP until they get "home" either. That keeps the players from wanting to meta-game. If someone wants to meta-game I ignore them and don't give them data.
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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by Go0gleplex »

Used to do 1 week of game time per level plus $$ involved. Just got to drag things down too much as some PCs had to wait around for others so bagged it. Only require training if a new class ability pops up, spells, trying to learn a new skill or such. Other than the skills...only require a week of game time to train other than for skills.
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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by serleran »

Require? No.

Offer? Yes.

Each character class has class-specific things they can learn, such as a rogue getting better at picking pockets, or how to twist the dagger just right to get it to stay embedded in their victim, etc. These take training to learn since they're not directly in the book but implied through natural improvement of skills. To train takes time and money, and someone who can train you, assuming the thing is not "self-taught" (and, even if it is not, you can still do it, but take longer in doing so.)

I also have universal things that can be picked up, like maximum HP on the level gain or a language learned.

For all these, so far, I made a chart and I give it to the players so they know in advance what they can train for; if something's not there, they can ask about it and I'll look into my magic voodoo and give an answer.

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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by alcyone »

I just got done switching my home game from Rules Cyclopedia to C&C, and training got the axe, mainly because in RC it means an unwieldy layer to an otherwise simple combat. I gave everyone magic items in lieu of the training benefits they received.

I may do something like Serleran said for those who wish to train. I do like how it drains my PCs of excess gold.
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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by Buttmonkey »

I require one week of training, regardless of level to be gained. Cost is 1,000 gp x current level (i.e., it costs 3,000 gp to train from 3rd to 4th level). This bleeds off treasure and keeps the PCs hungry for adventure opportunities. It also allows me to be liberal with treasure. Trainers are readily available in larger cities. My campaign has so far centered around one such city, so trainers are a non-issue. I'll probably drop the requirement to hire a trainer around level 10 and just say the PC can train themselves with one week of reflection and self-study. I'll probably require a training cost for wizards and illusionists even at high levels to account for spell research costs, but drop the training costs for other classes. I would also allow a high level PC to train a low level PC of the same class (the fee would be up to them).

As a further treasure-sucking measure, I'm thinking about imposing a lifestyle tax. The higher the PC's level, the higher the cost of living. A 15th level barbarian is not going to live in some lice-infested shack when he can afford something better. I haven't decided on the amount. Maybe 50 gp per week in town per level. Ascetic sorts like monks or clerics can be assumed to be tithing that amount to the poor/their religious order. From there, I can just hand-wave in-town living expenses. My players threw a bit of a wrench in the works last session by renting a house in the city, so they've go their housing cost pinned down for the moment.
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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by Captain_K »

My group plays so little, our goal is to play and minimize game time talking about and working on "math stuff".. as the CK its my job to keep balance and work training, skill increase, chances to learn new stuff, new spells, magic, etc and meet "heroes" or "saints" for special events like Druid rites, next level of abilities (Paladins picking up Turning or calling a Horse).. right into game play when I can.. thus I do not strictly deal with training... I'm also stingy with cash, give no experience for cash so I don't use training as a way to burn cash....

So do as you will, training is part of the game, it can be played or not, but its really not, at least most time the exciting or amazing most fun part of the game..
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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by ChaosImp »

Buttmonkey wrote:I require one week of training, regardless of level to be gained. Cost is 1,000 gp x current level (i.e., it costs 3,000 gp to train from 3rd to 4th level). This bleeds off treasure and keeps the PCs hungry for adventure opportunities. It also allows me to be liberal with treasure. Trainers are readily available in larger cities. My campaign has so far centered around one such city, so trainers are a non-issue. I'll probably drop the requirement to hire a trainer around level 10 and just say the PC can train themselves with one week of reflection and self-study. I'll probably require a training cost for wizards and illusionists even at high levels to account for spell research costs, but drop the training costs for other classes. I would also allow a high level PC to train a low level PC of the same class (the fee would be up to them).

As a further treasure-sucking measure, I'm thinking about imposing a lifestyle tax. The higher the PC's level, the higher the cost of living. A 15th level barbarian is not going to live in some lice-infested shack when he can afford something better. I haven't decided on the amount. Maybe 50 gp per week in town per level. Ascetic sorts like monks or clerics can be assumed to be tithing that amount to the poor/their religious order. From there, I can just hand-wave in-town living expenses. My players threw a bit of a wrench in the works last session by renting a house in the city, so they've go their housing cost pinned down for the moment.
That's exactly how our group does training too ;) Did you get that idea from 1st ed AD&D? I know it was a lot more expensive ( 1,000gp per level per week 1d4 weeks needed for training), I just cut it down to 1,000gp per level. Its works as the party will never become complacent and it also takes care of the problem that at high levels they will have loads of +1 items gathered over the year's, they end up selling all the old +1 stuff.

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Re: Training -- How do you handle this?

Post by TheMetal1 »

I play with training required. A PC who meets the EXP threshold for their next level in the midst of a dungeon, will be able to roll for new hit points, utilize a new BtH, but new skills, abilities or spells will be unavailable until they see a trainer. They can continue to gain EXP up to the threshold of the next level, but will not gain any abilities, hit points, spells, skills, BtH, etc. if they reach that subsequent level and will stop getting EXP until they train. It's a compromise for those in a dungeon or out of the way place doing a mission to get a boon of sorts and not interrupt the adventure, but still add the training piece in.

One week per level, so a PC training for 4th Level will need to spend 4 weeks training. If a PC who makes 4th Level in a dungeon, they'll be able to fight better, and have better general abilities (adding their level to SIEGE checks, etc.), and will continue to gain EXP until they reach 5th Level. At which point, they'll stop getting the EXP, etc.

I've waived cost at this point, but probably will require some payback if not outright gold/treasure.

Is there anything in the CKG or PHB on training? I don't recall at the moment, but if not, it might be a good optional rule to add into the Adventurer's Backpack when they finalize that.

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