Illusionists and Wizards and Sorcerers, oh my!

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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Snoring Rock
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Re: Illusionists and Wizards and Sorcerers, oh my!

Post by Snoring Rock »

Hahhaaaaa.....clerics. I find they spot things and search as well as rogues at times. Hmmm....

But yet, you said it better than I and in shorter terms.

alcyone
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Re: Illusionists and Wizards and Sorcerers, oh my!

Post by alcyone »

The CKG I think covers it pretty well, but players probably won't be reading that. If an explanation is needed, one that might satisfy is the idea of psychosomatic illness. You can have a book in your hand about psychosomatic illnesses, you can go right to the page with your symptoms and go "A-ha! It's just PSYCHOSOMATIC!" but you'll still be sick. If the doctor tells you that your illness is psychosomatic you won't get instantly better because now you know, because it's the not the rational part of your mind that is in change of making it go away.
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Arduin
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Re: Illusionists and Wizards and Sorcerers, oh my!

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Aergraith wrote:My interpretation of the rules is even if an illusionist walks up to you and says "Hi, I am an ILLUSIONIST. I am going to make a dragon appear behind you, and even though it's not real, it is going to kill you." and someone detects truth on him and tells everyone and someone walks up and tapes a sign to his chest saying "Don't believe a word this guy says, after all, he is an illusionist." it won't make the slightest bit of difference, because it's not that kind of illusion. You could certainly call it something other than illusion if it helps, and banish the word "belief", but when you are making your save, it's really like saving against a wizard spell, it just happens under additional circumstances.
Yup. As per the PHB
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Arduin
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Re: Illusionists and Wizards and Sorcerers, oh my!

Post by Arduin »

koralas wrote: The illusionist is controlling every arrow to at least a certain degree, as long as it fits the AoE. The illusion is crafted such that it shows a volley of arrows, with one (or more) is flying towards you, it is the mind of the victim that perceives the arrow flying at him.
Nope. That is an effect generated by a spell such as Weird (there is a HUGE difference between those two types of Illusionist spells). With a silent image you are JUST creating an image out in the real world (think really good hologram). You are NOT causing their mind to see an arrow coming towards them. Either the caster aims an arrow to hit someone (that EVERYONE sees) or you don't. There is no command into someones mind that an arrow is coming and hits them. It ALL occurs in the projection area of effect. THUS, the caster can only control what he can mentally control.
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Re: Illusionists and Wizards and Sorcerers, oh my!

Post by koralas »

Snoring Rock wrote:Ok in C&C the damage is as real from an illusory arrow as it is from magic missile. My examples are not the best. Again, illusionist are wonky. Try this....change the name from illusionist to sorcerer and see how that changes it all. Base the saves on different attributes. Whole new world.
I am unclear on how a name change makes a difference? Maybe I am missing something in your point.
Snoring Rock wrote:My point here is that you get one save for the fireball (DEX). You get one save from the illusory fireball (INT). More saves after the original round, I think, is devaluing the illusionist. If I see a caster getting ready to cast fireball, I should get a bonus on my dex save because I see it coming....right? Who gives that bonus? But if affected by an illusion, I get a new save every round?
You do get a Dex bonus on the save, it is a dexterity based save after all. ;)
Snoring Rock wrote:I say you get one save with bonuses based on circumstances. The silent image spell may be broken. I am not sure how much longer I will allow it in my campaign.

On one hand, in the first round, you see a dragon lunging at you. You do not think about sound or smell, you just duck. You get a save. If you fail, you take damage. In the next round you get another save because the rest of the dragons' body seems to be missing or you cannot smell the brimstone in his breath. You get another save with a bonus. That makes sense. So, does the damage go away too? Now that I know it was not real, how can I believe the damage I took?
No all damage already suffered remains with you.
Snoring Rock wrote:On the other hand, allowing this greater damage and flexibility with illusions may counter the weakness in getting extra saves against them as the rounds go on. In that way of thinking, I am inclined to let my players get nasty with the illusions since the effects may not be that long.

I like hearing other thought on this. I have long struggled with illusionists.
That is where I am going with this. Illusions should be nasty, do not over power them with huge amounts of damage, until you get to higher level shadow spells, you shouldn't do as much damage as a spell you are simulating.

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