Siege Engine Clarification please

[captcorajus]

So, I'm a bit unclear as to when a player DOESN'T
add, or does add their level to an ability check.

My interpretation of things are as follows:

1) Add levels if its a class ability
2) Add levels if its a prime ability
3) Add levels if its a saving throw

Is this correct? Thanks for the help.

[Aramis]

Players (and monsters) add their level (whether or not they are prime) to :

Class skills that they possess

Saving throws

general skills- the idea being, you get better at horseriding, swimming, firemaking, etc as you adventure more

The one where you do not add level is when you are attempting cross class skill checks. Like a paladin trying to track or a wizard trying to open a lock. However, many people (including me) do not allow players to even attempt most (but not all) cross class skill checks. Many others do allow it more fully, but do not allow you to add level. Up to the DM

You will find the major difference is not between adding character level or not (since the vast majority of what they do will add their level) but rather between a prime and non prime check

[captcorajus]

Awesome! Thank you for the clarification.

[Buttmonkey]

And sometimes the CK will decide the PC doesn't get to add level on a non-class-based "skill" check because the CK doesn't believe it's the sort of thing the PC would get better as the PC increases in level/becomes more heroic.

[Rigon]

So, I'm a bit unclear as to when a player DOESN'T
add, or does add their level to an ability check.

My interpretation of things are as follows:

1) Add levels if its a class ability
2) Add levels if its a prime ability
3) Add levels if its a saving throw

Is this correct? Thanks for the help.

Aramis covers it nicely, but here is my two copper.

Of your 3 points, 1 and 3 are for sure add level. I'm not sure what you mean by "prime ability," but I assume you mean any ability that falls under a characters Prime selections. If so, then not necessarily. Most times a player will add level if it makes sense for the character to have some knowledge in what they are attempting. They never add level if it is an ability that belongs to a specific class.

The thing to remember about C&C and the SIEGE Engine is, you don't have to roll for everything. If something is fairly easy or does not impact the game in a dramatic fashion, then the player doesn't need to roll to accomplish the action. An example: a ranger without armor comes across a calm, slow moving creek. He needs to get to the other side. He swims across the creek without the need for the player to make a roll. Now, the same ranger comes to fast moving, boulder filled river. He would have to make at least one roll to see if he had any trouble swimming across.

R-

[Omote]

I'll make the answer as easy as possible:

ALWAYS add level to all Siege Engine checks a character has to make every time... UNLESS the character is attempting an ability/skill that is part of another character class -OR- the CK doesn't want you to add level to the roll.

~O

[slimykuotoan]

Yeah, just because you have an ability that is prime, does not mean that you add level.

Prime abilities have nothing to do with adding level for checks.

[pawndream]

You can make it even simpler on the player side and just have them always add their level to any SIEGE check or saving throw. This is how I handle it.

As the CK, you can adjust the CL based on whether the skill happens to be a skill or ability that is the niche of another class. For example, a 10th level fighter is attempting to pick a lock. This guys been around the block a bit, so it is possible he has watched his rogue buddy do it in the past. Except now the rogue isn't here. How did Fingers do it again?

So Joe the Fighter tries, adds his level (accounting for his past experience) and then you as the CK adjust the CL to whatever you think fits the situation.

[slimykuotoan]

Add level for checks you have think would fall into the abilities of said class. Officially speaking, that's the rule.

[Buttmonkey]

Add level for checks you have think would fall into the abilities of said class. Officially speaking, that's the rule.

That's only part of the rule. The general rule overall is to add level to anything that is not an ability belonging to a different class. High level PCs are supposed to be heroic and therefore capable of doing all sorts of cool crap that low level PCs can't pull off.

[slimykuotoan]

I don't think that's correct, although I could be wrong I'll admit. My understanding is if it falls under your class add level, although one could make the argument that if your fighter came from a fishing village, he could fish, etc.

If level was to be added to anything not listed under another class, then fighters would add level to star gazing checks, engineering, insect studies, baking, and etcetera. Things of which they should have no training in, unless house ruled because of character background, etc.

[Treebore]

I don't think that's correct, although I could be wrong I'll admit. My understanding is if it falls under your class add level, although one could make the argument that if your fighter came from a fishing village, he could fish, etc.

If level was to be added to anything not listed under another class, then fighters would add level to star gazing checks, engineering, insect studies, baking, and etcetera. Things of which they should have no training in, unless house ruled because of character background, etc.

The default is you can try anything outside of another Class' class ability and add level. However if your own game uses the Skill systems out of the CKG, then the default would change accordingly. If you have the most recent printing its spelled out, kind of clearly, since they STILL accidentally refer to non Class skills when the paragraph, and the following paragraph, are clearly all about impinging on the skills of other classes. Anyways, to look at the exact wording check out page 167.

[JohnD]

IIRC from the CKG if using Secondary Skills, don't add level, but I've not slept since Tuesday, so potato.