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6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:25 am
by Traveller
With supplies of the 6th print PHB running low, now is the time to point out the various gaffes, mistakes, omissions and snafus present in the rules, so they can be fixed for the 7th print. This is probably the best place to post them, and from there they can all be sent to the Trolls.

To start off, the Great Scimitar in the equipment list should have an asterisk as it is a two-handed weapon. The druid's weapon list should include the great scimitar. (Source: http://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtop ... =8&t=16709 )

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:01 am
by kreider204
Page 21: The poison table is missing modifiers.

Page 32: The illusionist’s Disguise skill works just like the assassin’s, and should have the same modifiers; specifically, the modifier for being intimate with the target (+12) is present in the assassin’s description, but is missing in the illusionist’s description.

Page 50: Remove “(CONSTITUTION)” from the dwarf’s Resistant to Poisons; it’s unnecessary, and doesn’t match the formatting of other similar racial abilities.

Page 51: Remove “(Wisdom)” from the elf’s Spell Resistance; it’s unnecessary, and doesn’t match the formatting of other similar racial abilities.

Page 54: Remove “(Wisdom)” from the half-elf’s Spell Resistance (in both places: one near the bottom of the left column, and one at the top of the right column); it’s unnecessary, and doesn’t match the formatting of other similar racial abilities.

Page 64: Saddle bags ought to specify a capacity rating.

Page 68: This statement is problematic: “Illusion magic is a type of arcane magic, but is inherently different from a wizard’s magic since the effects are all in the mind.” [Italics mine.] This clearly contradicts page 31: “An illusionist uses magic to alter the perceptions of others and even reality itself. This magic deceives the senses, creates false images and sounds, changes sensory qualities, affects the mind’s perceptions, and in some cases fashions arcane energies into something real” [italics mine], not to mention some spell effects (e.g., Shadow Conjuration). In general, the discussion of illusion magic, whether in the class description or the magic system, is unclear and inconsistent, and could use a serious polishing.

Page 95: The Cloak of Dark Chaos spell should read “SV intelligence [not “wisdom”] negates” (so as to match the text description).

Page 174: The first sentence of the second full paragraph of the Grappling section should read “The armor class of a defender in a grappling [not “overbearing”] attack,” etc.

Page 174: Delete the last sentence of the second paragraph of the Overbearing section; it’s redundant with the first sentence in that paragraph, which already mentions the BtH modifier.

Page 180: Under the “TURN UNDEAD” section, the first sentence in the second (indented and highlighted) paragraph should probably be at the end of the previous (non-indented and non-highlighted) paragraph – it’s not just part of the example, it’s part of the rules.

Page 180: The first sentence of the “Evil Clerics” section should read: “Evil clerics can assume control of the undead instead of destroying [not “turning”] them,” etc.

Page 181: The rules should specify how paladins are to be treated for the purposes of being turned by evil clerics (probably as unique undead).

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:42 pm
by Traveller
I don't have spare time to exhaustively comment on these, but regarding the Illusionist Disguise ability, I believe the lack of an intimate modifier is deliberate. I'll check my notes when I'm able, as well as check the rest of these.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:33 pm
by kreider204
Hi, Traveller.
Thanks, I don't need an exhaustive commentary. I'm just offering them up for consideration, and the Trolls can use them or not as they see fit.
Thanks again.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:04 am
by Traveller
LOL. I typed my reply in a hurry while working. That's what happens when I don't think things through before typing.

In general your finds are spot on, and a few of these have dated back years. Including the intimate modifier, as my editing copy of the 4th print mentions adding that particular modifier to the illusionist.

Keep 'em coming.

EDIT: A potential issue with modifier signs being flipped in the grappling and overbearing rules. See http://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtop ... =8&t=15883

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:53 am
by alcyone
Scythe should probably be a two-handed weapon.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:59 pm
by capmarvel
"challenge" is spelled "challange" in 3 places - Table of Contents, page 163, and page 164.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:50 am
by Captain_K
I would like to see the Monk stun strictly defined. My preference would be STUN per the PH definition PLUS the stunned opponent cannot take offensive actions, but they can defend themselves or make a half more. Or some such.. right now its too vague and counter to the basic definition of stunned.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:51 am
by Captain_K
What is your goal for all comments? I could ask my players to compile their list, have beer, chat and get a list and spend time thinking and reading...

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:01 am
by Traveller
My goal? I just want a place to house all the errata so myself and the Trolls can look at it as needed. Especially since I know I missed stuff from the fifth print.

Have your gaming crew compile their stuff and post it here.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:59 pm
by Omote
POST DA ERATTA DANG NABIT. I NEED MO PERFECT PHBz. STATIM!

~O

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:22 pm
by Traveller
I'll be completely honest. I'm willing to live with spelling errors at this stage of the game, so long as they aren't on the front or back covers. What I want to see is any lingering mechanics issues corrected. Things like missing modifiers, incorrect modifiers, and confusing text. For example, missing modifiers in the illusionist disguise ability, the overbearing modifiers, and the text covering illusionist magic.

We're never going to stamp out the spelling errors, but the other things are all stuff we can focus on.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:31 pm
by alcyone
I don't really understand why spelling errors (besides there/their stuff that aren't misspellings but the wrong word) can't be eradicated. Is stuff getting retyped during layout?

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:57 pm
by Omote
Lingering spelling errors, really?

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:20 am
by Traveller
It's a matter of priorities. Spelling errors have a very low priority compared to mechanics fixes, and a game with its mechanics working correctly can survive spelling errors. No matter how many spelling errors are found, more will crop up simply because we're fallible creatures, and sometimes gloss over the small details.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:25 pm
by Omote
While I certainly agree that mechanical issues are certainly a top concern, I think the head-honchos of TLG don't want to change that many (if any) rules in the game. Also, when you look at message boards like these and BIG PURPLE, you'll see concern from customers that find spelling errors of such import that they simply won't purchase a PHB, or worse yet, don't even play the game.

So, yes, please do get as many mechanical fixes in the game as possible. But certainly don't relegate spelling errors to the non-issue trash bin like they don't matter, because they certainly do.

~O

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:10 pm
by Rigon
Omote wrote:While I certainly agree that mechanical issues are certainly a top concern, I think the head-honchos of TLG don't want to change that many (if any) rules in the game. Also, when you look at message boards like these and BIG PURPLE, you'll see concern from customers that find spelling errors of such import that they simply won't purchase a PHB, or worse yet, don't even play the game.
Then they must not play any games, since I don't own a single game book without, at least some spelling errors. Plus that hasn't been a valid argument against C&C since like the 3rd printing. Heck, the 6th printing has what, maybe a dozen or so misspellings in the entire book? I own novels with more misspellings than that. Most of those arguments are based off of the 1st and 2nd printing.

R-

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:35 pm
by Omote
Rigon wrote: Then they must not play any games, since I don't own a single game book without, at least some spelling errors. Plus that hasn't been a valid argument against C&C since like the 3rd printing. Heck, the 6th printing has what, maybe a dozen or so misspellings in the entire book? I own novels with more misspellings than that. Most of those arguments are based off of the 1st and 2nd printing.

R-
Certainly. But the stigma must be changed by continually supporting increased proficiency at correcting spelling errors from printing to printing. That way, just like you put it, everyone can say without hesitation that the spelling corrections have been in place for the past 4, 5, 6, etc. printings. If Trav is the cheif editor/spellchecker, there is no reason to ever go backwards and say that spelling errors are taking a back seat. Can't do that. Puts the game in a bad light, and all we're trying to do is continually hold up our game to higher and higher standards. Every printing should be better than the last. Period. For certain certainly.

~O

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:06 pm
by serleran
The goal should always be perfection in production. We know it won't happen, but that's the dream.


Anyway, this thread is better served with mechanical fixes, first and grammar (when it does not lead to rules confusion) second -- that does not mean one is more important, but it does mean that the end result, a book where one can understand the intent of the content, comes out.

Or whatever. I still use first print with a ton of serleran changes.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:19 pm
by Rhuvein
Aergraith wrote:I don't really understand why spelling errors (besides there/their stuff that aren't misspellings but the wrong word) can't be eradicated. Is stuff getting retyped during layout?
I wonder what format is used for creating/editing the documents, PDF or Word - both have spellcheckers. Seems easy enough.

Hmm.

:)

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:20 pm
by Traveller
Serleran understands my thought process here.

The initial document is done in Word, then the text is imported into Adobe InDesign for layout. However, I never had access to a Word document when doing the PHB. Even if I did I guarantee that the spell checker wouldn't find all the spelling errors, and worse, would pick up items that aren't spelling errors at all, especially when those items are game related terms. While a spell checker will fix the most common items, it still requires human beings to take a look at the stuff even after a spell checker was applied. In short, don't rely exclusively on a spell checker. Use your eyes and the gray matter between your ears.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:50 am
by Treebore
Traveller wrote:Serleran understands my thought process here.

The initial document is done in Word, then the text is imported into Adobe InDesign for layout. However, I never had access to a Word document when doing the PHB. Even if I did I guarantee that the spell checker wouldn't find all the spelling errors, and worse, would pick up items that aren't spelling errors at all, especially when those items are game related terms. While a spell checker will fix the most common items, it still requires human beings to take a look at the stuff even after a spell checker was applied. In short, don't rely exclusively on a spell checker. Use your eyes and the gray matter between your ears.
Yep. Even so, the Trolls seriously upset me when they failed to apply much of the errata turned into them for Victorious.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:28 pm
by Traveller
Preaching to the choir sir. Preaching to the choir. :)

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:37 pm
by Captain_K
Do you have the volume error on Minor Image? 40 foot on a side cube to start is great, but the level advance needs to be worded in the same manner, "plus 10' on a side per level after". Then I would suggest and example to nail that at 3rd level its 60 foot on a side for the cube of area affected. There's a thread on this if you want more detail.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:46 pm
by Traveller
Minor and Major Image area of effect issues: http://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtop ... 9&p=249403

@Captain_K: I was watching the above thread, which is the one you refer to. My replies are already there.

Re: 6th Printing PHB Errata

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:03 pm
by Bree_Yark
Clarification on Silent Image, Minor Image and Major Image as to the size of the image allowed.

a (40 x40 x40) cube or 40 cubic feet (3.4 x3.4 x3.4)