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Rogue Class Abilities 
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Henchman

Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:14 pm
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Post Rogue Class Abilities
Is there a game mechanism in C&C wherein the rogue gets a bonus in his class abilities attempts that other classes do not? For example, any character can try to move quietly, hide, listen, etc, but shouldn't the rogue have an advantage in attempts to do that? The way we've been playing is whenever a character tries to attempt one of these, they add their level to the role, regardless of what class they are. Seems to me the only character class that should do that should be the rogue to reflect his special training ability in this area. It this the way we're supposed to be doing it and are doing it wrong in letting all the characters add their level to the roll? Thanks!


Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:16 pm
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Mogrl

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:00 am
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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
In general, the only time level is added (except for generic saves) is when the class has the ability, even if the attribute is not Prime. That means that all rogues always get level for every rogue ability; a fighter would never get level to hide or move silent.

A Castle Keeper may decide a situation warrants allowing level but this is an exception, not a standard.

Yes, it is possible for a non-rogue to be "better" at a rogue at lower levels, especially if the non-rogue has the attribute Prime, but technically, the Castle Keeper is also allowed to vary the difficulty... that is, for a rogue to move silently across the floor, the difficulty might be 3; for a fighter, across the same floor, it might be 7. This is the rule and one that I think often gets overlooked as the assumption is that everyone always has the same challenges.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:01 pm
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Maukling
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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
Xsntrk wrote:
Is there a game mechanism in C&C wherein the rogue gets a bonus in his class abilities attempts that other classes do not?


serleran wrote:
In general, the only time level is added (except for generic saves) is when the class has the ability, even if the attribute is not Prime. That means that all rogues always get level for every rogue ability; a fighter would never get level to hide or move silent.


Greetings, Xsntrk! serl has provided a most sufficient answer to this question - the rogue does have an intrinsic advantage by virtue of adding levels to their class ability checks.

I will add that the "default" suggestion is that the CK not allow other classes to attempt skills that belong to another class:

Player's Handbook, 6th Printing, page 167 wrote:
For example, a fighter might wish to open a lock, or a wizard might attempt to track. It is up to the Castle Keeper to decide if such an action is even possible. In general, it is recommended that a Castle Keeper should disallow a character a chance of success in attempting a non-class ability.


Now it goes on to say exactly what serl says; if the CK does allow the action, then do not add level to the check. That's certainly a valid action as well, and one that I've used many times. But there's a large middle ground here, too, Xsntrk. You can decide, on the fly, if the action is permissible or not. Say a fighter wants to pick a lock...does he have proper tools? If not, then don't allow the check. If he does, maybe you'll let him try, but he has to make a check and doesn't get to add his level. That wizard wants to track? He's can make a check, but even if successful he gets very little information and it doesn't even mean he's got the right tracks to follow.

When you exercise your discretion as CK, just make sure you're able to explain why to the players in case they ask. In my case, I've told them that I would allow checks on a case-by-case basis, and if I did allow the check that they will never add their level to non-class ability check.

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Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:20 pm
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Mogrl

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
Like I will allow anyone to try to climb a tree, or a short brick wall. Basically, anything I did when I was a kid. They just don't get to add level. When it comes to sheer walls, or the wall of a 3 story, or higher building, thats when I start saying they cannot even roll. Until the Thief climbs up there and throws down a nicely anchored rope for them to use. Said rope will then give Thieves and Rangers a +2 to their checks, and I'd only have them fall on a Nat 1, instead of failing by 5 or more. Things like that. Everyone else will just have to pray to the gods they don't fail, especially when they roll for 20, 30 feet or higher, since falling dice damage gets real ugly, real fast, in C&C.

So I say, think about it. If you think anyone would have a decent chance of success, let them roll, even if they don't have the class ability. When it gets hard, dangerous, or both, thats when the pro steps up and shows everyone else how its done.

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Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:38 pm
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Clang lives!
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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
I go a little further than Tree. If it is something that I could/can do reasonable (like climbing a tree, over a small wall, etc), I don't even require a roll at all.

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Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:52 pm
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Mogrl

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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
Rigon wrote:
I go a little further than Tree. If it is something that I could/can do reasonable (like climbing a tree, over a small wall, etc), I don't even require a roll at all.

R-



I wouldn't for the Thief or Ranger, etc..., but everyone else? Why pass up an opportunity for a laugh?

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:03 pm
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Battle Stag
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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
This is not *strictly* by the book, but if there is a fairly reasonable chance of success with no penalty for a small chance of failing, just let them pass the check and get on with the story. Though, I don't usually let other classes perform the skills of other classes (except climbing) -- but if I do in a case like this, I always have them attempt the skill check/attribute roll WITHOUT the benefit of adding their level.

~O

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Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:57 pm
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Maukling
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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
Yeah, I should have stated what the last three fellows said in their posts, and Omote in particular makes a good point.

If it's a reasonable mundane or easy task - such as climbing an oak tree or descending a knotted rope - I wouldn't have a PC make a check. Just tell me what you're doing and continue the story. Only if there's a reasonable chance of failure, or the outcome of the task is otherwise unclear, would I require a roll.

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Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:40 am
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Post Re: Rogue Class Abilities
Treebore wrote:
Rigon wrote:
I go a little further than Tree. If it is something that I could/can do reasonable (like climbing a tree, over a small wall, etc), I don't even require a roll at all.

R-



I wouldn't for the Thief or Ranger, etc..., but everyone else? Why pass up an opportunity for a laugh?


Omote wrote:
if there is a fairly reasonable chance of success with no penalty for a small chance of failing, just let them pass the check and get on with the story

This is why.

R-

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Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:41 pm
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