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Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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Saves vs Things

Wed May 02, 2018 1:45 pm

I get how Saves work in general. Spells are simple enough. The Challenge Level is the Caster's level.

What is the Challenge Level for items? Say I have a Ring of Charm Person. What is the Challenge Level for saving against that wand? Is it based on the spell level or is there a standard Challenge Rating for items like this or is it pretty much just left to the CK's discretion?

Thanks!

Re: Saves vs Things

Wed May 02, 2018 2:04 pm

SooperGenius wrote:I get how Saves work in general. Spells are simple enough. The Challenge Level is the Caster's level.

What is the Challenge Level for items? Say I have a Ring of Charm Person. What is the Challenge Level for saving against that wand? Is it based on the spell level or is there a standard Challenge Rating for items like this or is it pretty much just left to the CK's discretion?

Thanks!


CK's discretion. My discretion has me do it by what level items can be made. Wizards/Illusionists can make items, outside of scrolls and potions, at 9th level. Clerics/Druids at 12th. So in my games, those are the minimum levels they are for the CL to save versus them. Others have it scale with the level of the user. No doubt there are other ways used as well.

Re: Saves vs Things

Wed May 02, 2018 5:46 pm

Per the M&T (4th print and up), in the enteries for rods, staves, and wands.

"The necessary challenge and caster level of the spells cast by the rod is either 1) equal to the level of the wielder or 2) equal to the level of the rod’s creator, or, if unknown, as if a 12th level caster created
the item."

I've played for many years (before it was defined ni the 4th printing), as the level of the wielder. That way things like wands of fireball or magic missile are functional across the greatest range of levels.

R-

Re: Saves vs Things

Wed May 02, 2018 10:56 pm

Level of who charged the thing.

Re: Saves vs Things

Thu May 03, 2018 12:13 pm

Thanks for the answers. I had seen the quote from the CKG about rods. It didn't say anything about other types of magic items though.

I'm likely either going to go with the level of the wielder or 12th level. Both are simple rulings. Going with the level of who made the item or charged the item means I then have to know that information individually for each item. I don't really want to keep up with that information. I'm leaning towards making the power of the item scale with the user.

Re: Saves vs Things

Thu May 03, 2018 4:42 pm

Isn't there a section in the CKG that covers this topic? It's been a while, but I seem to remember a gigantic chart with a ton of mundane materials and various related saves.

~O

Re: Saves vs Things

Fri May 04, 2018 1:50 am

I know this is an engineering thing, but unless the wielder of the +3 magic sword somehow affects the sword, its a +3 sword. We would not think of stating it any other way. Its a +3 sword. A Wand of Fire Balls MUST be a 9th level Wand of Fire Balls or you can't get by its first use. It makes NO sense for a Wand of Fireballs to be uesed by a first level mage to be a 1d6 wand of fireballs.

Its not hard. Declare the item as found to be charge by an X level caster. If rechargeable, well then, its up to the caster recharging the thing to reset that level that goes with the item. NOT that hard to keep track of.. think post it note in your hand writing given to the player.

Re: Saves vs Things

Thu May 10, 2018 12:54 pm

I set the challenge level at the level (or hit dice) of the creator. I don't actually give NPCs levels since I don't give NPCs classes, so it's really more about the hit dice of creator for me. Tracking creator level could theoretically be a hassle, but I've never injected enough magic items into my campaign to make it an issue.
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