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Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:49 pm
by Buttmonkey
The Trolls have launched another kickstarter that doesn't appear to have been announced here yet for some reason. This one is special (from my perspective) because they are releasing the Player's Handbook, Monsters & Treasure, Castle Keeper's Guide, Codex of Aihrde, Player's Guide to Aihrde, Adventurer's Backpack, and Monsters & Treasure of Aihrde in DIGEST size!!! I told the Trolls I wouldn't be buying more copies of the PHB unless it came back in digest size and the Trolls came through big time.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:50 pm
by Buttmonkey
Did I mention the interiors will be in completely glorious black and white?! I loathe the colorized versions of the original B&W illustrations, so this is wonderful news.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:03 pm
by spudeus
To each their own, I suppose.

I've backed the last couple Troll kickstarters, but am having trouble biting the bullet on this one. $100 for a box of flimsy little digests? I don't quite get the appeal . . .

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:26 pm
by alcyone
It's kind of a neat idea. I am not sure my eyes could take it, and I have multiples of many of the books by now.
If my eyes were better and I didn't own anything yet I'd surely consider it. I do like the black and white; if it's crisp that's a selling point.

What I'd really like is a hardcover case-bound like a regular classic book, maybe cloth cover, US trade size, with alternate art inside. Mostly black and white with a few important color plates.
I don't want any more books that I already own with the Peter Bradley art... it's perfectly good art, but the reason to buy a new book for me would be to have some other art to look at and inspire.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:38 pm
by Buttmonkey
spudeus wrote:To each their own, I suppose.

I've backed the last couple Troll kickstarters, but am having biting the bullet on this one. $100 for a box of flimsy little digests? I don't quite get the appeal . . .
"Flimsy" isn't a fair characterization. I've got the last PHB and M&T they did in digest format (I believe 6th printing for the PHB and 2nd for M&T, although I'm not sure about the printing numbers). They are perfect bound and very sturdy. I take them on the road with me whenever I play outside my home. Why lug around pounds of large books when I can take small, light ones? They have held up very well. Perfect binding in digest size is much sturdier than in 8-1/2x11.

The appeal is the smaller size and weight. I rarely crack open my full-sized PHBs or M&T since getting the digest versions. The print is great, albeit very small. The Trolls are including a plastic magnifying strip about the size of a credit card to go with the digest books in the kickstarter. I don't think that is necessary, but I'm sure for some readers the print will be too small. I'm 46 with bifocals and have no problems reading the digest sized books. Anyway, I find the digest size versions to be much handier and more portable. The artwork is also better in black and white (IMO).

Of course, digest size isn't for everyone, but for me there's no way I'm going back to full size books if I can avoid it.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:39 pm
by Buttmonkey
Aergraith wrote:if it's crisp that's a selling point.
It is.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:46 pm
by Rhuvein
I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:13 am
by mgtremaine
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Have you seen the cost of Dr. Pepper lately. :)

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:37 am
by alcyone
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Well, for $100, you are getting digest versions of seven of the normal-sized books; that isn't a bad deal. I know less about their OD&D-like books.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:54 am
by Rhuvein
mgtremaine wrote:
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Have you seen the cost of Dr. Pepper lately. :)
No, is it high?

I buy Dr. Bob from Peapod and it's half the price! ;)

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:54 am
by Rhuvein
Aergraith wrote:
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Well, for $100, you are getting digest versions of seven of the normal-sized books; that isn't a bad deal. I know less about their OD&D-like books.
Hmm, are the digest books a different size than the boxed set books?

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:01 am
by finarvyn
Rhuvein wrote:
mgtremaine wrote:
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Have you seen the cost of Dr. Pepper lately. :)
No, is it high?

I buy Dr. Bob from Peapod and it's half the price! ;)
Not to pick a nit, Rhu, but if you don't know the price of Dr Pepper, then how do you know that Dr Bob is half the price? ;)

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:12 pm
by mmbutter
Rhuvein wrote:Hmm, are the digest books a different size than the boxed set books?
Yes, they are digest-sized.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:02 pm
by Traveller
The thing I noticed in the Kickstarter isn't the digest books. They are reprinting the White Box set - which the Kickstarter refers to as C&C Classic - and then offering a limited edition Advanced C&C Classic box including the books from the Adventurer's Backpack.

I'd like to see those booklets get the changes and improvements in the rules that have come about from the last fifteen years, but from the description on Kickstarter this is going to be a straight up reprint. That means that besides the fact no errata will be included in the booklets, missing information in spells and monsters to actually make them playable out of the box won't be included either.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:49 pm
by capmarvel
I'd say chances of this being out March 2019 are pegged at zero percent (given that the Adventures Backpack was like 15 months late).

(I print all my C&C books B&W...purchase the PDF, print at Lulu for about $5 each - for some reason my "color blindness" has trouble reading the text as is on the colored background but it looks great B&W).

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:43 pm
by mgtremaine
I've been trying to not look at Kickstarter.... damnit rolled a 1.. Need to decide between the Basic and Advanced now. [Shakes fist at Traveller]

-Mike

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:04 am
by Traveller
mgtremaine wrote:I've been trying to not look at Kickstarter.... damnit rolled a 1.. Need to decide between the Basic and Advanced now. [Shakes fist at Traveller]

-Mike
:twisted:

I'd go for the Advanced version. You get everything in the white box plus all the Adventurer's Backpack material. Meanwhile, I've started over on my revision of the white box rules, after losing the original to a corrupted zip file.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:45 pm
by mgtremaine
Traveller wrote:
mgtremaine wrote:I've been trying to not look at Kickstarter.... damnit rolled a 1.. Need to decide between the Basic and Advanced now. [Shakes fist at Traveller]

-Mike
:twisted:

I'd go for the Advanced version. You get everything in the white box plus all the Adventurer's Backpack material. Meanwhile, I've started over on my revision of the white box rules, after losing the original to a corrupted zip file.
That was the choice I made.. I have the original white box release so it made sense to go for the Advanced.

-Mike

PS - Have you tried any tools like WinRAR or Zip2Fix [ http://leelusoft.altervista.org/zip2fix.html ] both go which claim to recover corrupt zips

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:19 pm
by Traveller
I use WinRAR, but I didn't have a recovery record in my RAR files at the time. That has since been corrected.

It's not a huge deal as I still have PDFs of the White Box to work from. It just means I get to do things over again.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:37 pm
by dachda
spudeus wrote:To each their own, I suppose.

I've backed the last couple Troll kickstarters, but am having trouble biting the bullet on this one. $100 for a box of flimsy little digests? I don't quite get the appeal . . .

Digest is the perfect size when sitting on the can. Just too hard with the full-size hardbacks.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:31 am
by Omote
Clarification: From what i understand the C&C Classic Basic White Box Set included with this KS is not a reprint of the earlier C&C White Box; it is it's own thing. That's kinda why I am excited about this KS. I love the original C&C White Box, but it needs a new coat of paint, a bit of expansion (10th level), and a whole new layout with some updated art. That is what we are getting with this new C&C Classic Basic White Box Set.

~O

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:35 am
by spudeus
dachda wrote:Digest is the perfect size when sitting on the can. Just too hard with the full-size hardbacks.
Okay, if they throw in some bonus T.P. with an embossed C&C logo, I'm in.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:31 pm
by mgtremaine
Omote wrote:Clarification: From what i understand the C&C Classic Basic White Box Set included with this KS is not a reprint of the earlier C&C White Box; it is it's own thing. That's kinda why I am excited about this KS. I love the original C&C White Box, but it needs a new coat of paint, a bit of expansion (10th level), and a whole new layout with some updated art. That is what we are getting with this new C&C Classic Basic White Box Set.

~O

Tighter fold on the books also. Because they are pretty thick the paper needed to be scored pretty hard to lay more flat. But that's my nit on the set I have. :)

-Mike

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:46 am
by Obadiah
Two questions:

One for the Kickstarter vets. I have never used it. I am worried about what the cost to post might become on the digests to Australia. How do I find out what it is going to cost for postage?

Second one - I like the idea of digest sized, but am a little worried about print size and the fact they felt the need to offer the magnifying lens. I wear reading glasses for the full sized book I have, so worried about how small the digest version print might be. Does anyone have a view on this? To simulate this should I try to print a PDF I currently own on A5 paper for example?

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:35 am
by Buttmonkey
Obadiah wrote:Two questions:

One for the Kickstarter vets. I have never used it. I am worried about what the cost to post might become on the digests to Australia. How do I find out what it is going to cost for postage?

Second one - I like the idea of digest sized, but am a little worried about print size and the fact they felt the need to offer the magnifying lens. I wear reading glasses for the full sized book I have, so worried about how small the digest version print might be. Does anyone have a view on this? To simulate this should I try to print a PDF I currently own on A5 paper for example?
No idea on your shipping question.

As to font size, I think you're on the right track with printing a test sample. Historically (I'll come back to this), the digest books were exact replicas on the full size books, only in miniature. If you print a test page at the shrunk down size, you should get a pretty good idea what you'd be getting. I don't have my digest sized books handy, but I believe the margins are something like 1/4 or 3/8 of an inch (maybe smaller).

Back to the "historical" point. Steve said yesterday the Trolls are considering using a larger font with the digest size books by eliminating some of the art. That should keep the page count the same, but I have no idea if it will affect the exact pagination (meaning, text may appear on a different page number than the full sized book from time to time although the overall page count may stay the same). I believe they also mentioned possibly making the books slightly larger than the digest sized books they have made in the past. Backers were given a link to a poll to vote on whether we want exact replicas of the books in digest size or go with the larger font and less art. If the backers select option 2, the font size will obviously be bigger and less of a challenge for folks with vision issues. Personally, I am near-sighted and have no problem reading the digest size font with bifocals, but that doesn't mean everyone will have the same experience.

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:02 am
by Gundoggy
I'm getting to the age where even the text in the full size books is hard to read.
No digest for me.