Troll Lord Games
http://www.trolllord.com/forums/

How do you handle multiclass?
http://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17589
Page 1 of 1

Author:  JShan101 [ Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  How do you handle multiclass?

Less about the by-the-book rules here, and more about how you've approached level advancement in multiclass. Is it always 1:1 (or 1:1:1, etc) in levels in your games?

That is, using a straight PHB read, you normally add the xp requirement of the classes and add the prescribed extra amount, and the character goes from 1/1 to 2/2...and, presumably later, 3/3, etc.

Or do you use a system where the levels advance more independently? (Not necessarily the class-and-a-half thing...)

Talk to me, CKs!

Author:  Go0gleplex [ Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

I generally just use it as written on the rare occasion that it even comes up. I don't disallow multi-class but on the same note, I don't really encourage it either. Especially given how many extra classes I have with my home rules stuff.

Author:  serleran [ Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

I don't.

If someone wants to be X/Y/Z or have abilities of this/that, then they get a new character class with its own progression.

Author:  Rigon [ Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

I use more of a traditional (AD&D) method.

R-

Author:  DMMike [ Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

My system was printed in Crusader mag (issues 6 and 7, maybe?). In brief, I combine the two classes to get a third class and I treat that combine as 1 class. So, instead of a Fighter/Rogue I've got a Bandit. Wizard/Rogue is a Charletain, etc.

Maybe its my Classic D&D-ness showing, but I've never liked the independent moving up class systems.

Mike

Author:  Lurker [ Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

DMMike wrote:
My system was printed in Crusader mag (issues 6 and 7, maybe?). In brief, I combine the two classes to get a third class and I treat that combine as 1 class. So, instead of a Fighter/Rogue I've got a Bandit. Wizard/Rogue is a Charletain, etc.

Maybe its my Classic D&D-ness showing, but I've never liked the independent moving up class systems.

Mike


I'd forgotten about that, I'll have to dig out the ole Crusader mags .

Now I will say, I may be the outlier on 'independent moving' of classes.

I can agree with you of fantasy D&D like classes/games. However, as I kicked around ideas for future games, and now that I'm running an Amazing Adventure Gothic game, I actually like the nuanced mix of multi classes and them being able to advance at different rates. It has allowed me to make some interesting NPC allies and opponents. So, I'm sure it would make some neat characters too.

I don't think it would be needed in your Victorious game since character creation is so flexible and not tied to a class.

That said, back to the original question

I originally like sthe idea of clas and 1/2. However, as I made a few characters BTB with it, I didn't like you had the exp costs, but on some classes you didn't get all the abilities. To me, if you are paying the exp, even at the 1 & 1/2 rates, then you should get all the abilities.

Also, I to tend to prefer a house ruled class to a regular multi class. Unless of course your goal is to paly the standard multi class mixes. For example, it you want to play a thug of a rogue, then by all means play a fighter thief, but, if you want to play a swashbuckler, then thought the fighter thief is a close match, it isn't a perfect fit, so you need a home brew class.

Author:  Ancalagon [ Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

JShan101 wrote:
Less about the by-the-book rules here, and more about how you've approached level advancement in multiclass. Is it always 1:1 (or 1:1:1, etc) in levels in your games?
I don't.

JShan101 wrote:
That is, using a straight PHB read, you normally add the xp requirement of the classes and add the prescribed extra amount, and the character goes from 1/1 to 2/2...and, presumably later, 3/3, etc.

Or do you use a system where the levels advance more independently? (Not necessarily the class-and-a-half thing...)

Talk to me, CKs!
In C&C I like to take the approach that a youth trains in a profession and then operates in that profession upon completion of apprenticeship. E.g. A young man trains as a squire to eventually become a knight. The character is a knight. Same for the priesthood and clerics, etc. YMMV.

Author:  Buttmonkey [ Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

I run multiclassing and class-and-a-half BTB. I much prefer C&C’s multiclassing rules to 1E’s.

Author:  JShan101 [ Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

All good input, thanks!

I've always been ok with multiclass—well, dual-class, anyway. I've had people who want to triple up, and I would gently explain that they were pretty much asking to remain first level forever...

I think I am going to play around with a mostly character-driven option where they will get to decide what percentage of their total xp goes to which class—but in which the CK has some say. If the fighter/rogue has gone through an adventure without trying to pick a lock or move silently, for example, it should be awarded a lower percentage. Advancement sticks with the figures shown in the C&C class charts for each.

This puts the player in the driver's seat for his character, which can help push along their personal narrative.

Author:  Captain_K [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

The by the book is simple... no keeping track of this or that class gets what experience. I have group advancement without much detail to experience points so the simple idea that a fighter mage advances as one class of the experience of each add plus a tad... that make it easy... always behind everyone else... but not by much at levels below 12th.. no experience at high level but the lag would be greater as the progression becomes linear not doubling.

Class and a half is cool too, BTB.

Author:  Buttmonkey [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

JShan101 wrote:
All good input, thanks!

I've always been ok with multiclass—well, dual-class, anyway. I've had people who want to triple up, and I would gently explain that they were pretty much asking to remain first level forever...

I think I am going to play around with a mostly character-driven option where they will get to decide what percentage of their total xp goes to which class—but in which the CK has some say. If the fighter/rogue has gone through an adventure without trying to pick a lock or move silently, for example, it should be awarded a lower percentage. Advancement sticks with the figures shown in the C&C class charts for each.

This puts the player in the driver's seat for his character, which can help push along their personal narrative.

That seems like a lot of book work and granularity. I'd recommend just giving them regular XP and not worry about whether they attempted to pick enough locks to get full XP. If you need a logical rationale to preserve verisimilitude, you can assume they are practicing their skills between adventuring sessions. You can try to move silently just about anywhere and at any time.

Author:  koralas [ Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

I've done a few things at different times. I also allow humans to use the rules from AD&D for a character with two classes. Though I don't limit to two classes, but rather to just what attributes are primary. I have also converted the AD&D Bard, two flavors existed, one, the Bard, based on F/R/Druid (Prime S, D, W) and the other, the Skald, was based on F/R/Illusionist (Prime S/D/I). These followed the AD&D class of leveling as a fighter, then as a rogue before switching to Bard. Naturally requiring three Primes the class is restricted to Humans. I toyed with the idea of opening it to Half-Elves requiring their enhanced ability to fill out the third Prime but no one ever opted to try it as half-elf. Sadly, only one player opted for the Bard. The C& C Bard was kept, changing the name to Archaeologian, BtH to match the Cleric progression, Exalt and Exhort Greatness were removed, and added Open Lock and Traps as the Rogue. I never liked the Bard as a secondary warrior, especially since their low XP chart makes them better fighters than Barbarians, Rangers, Paladins, and Knights. They are only about 1/2 a level behind the fighter until level 12+ where they begin to outstrip the Fighter, as regards BtH, yes the fighter has specialization and an extra attack at 10th level making them superior as to total damage potential, but that the Bard could hit more easily just never made sense to me.

The BtB combining of XP plus additional XP to determine level progression, but give said new class a name, much as like DMMike's article, it is a new class.

Tracking XP for each class separately, they level independently, like traditional AD&D, no added XP required. XP is also awarded independently, spell casting XP goes to the caster side, combat XP is divided 75% to the more militant class. Treasure XP is split evenly, unless acquired by a particular class skill. Skill challenge XP for those classes like the Rogue picking locks goes exclusively to that class.

I really like Class and a Half, and have done it by the book, and have also modified the XP requirement, so you add the XP of the Primary class to reach it's next level, and 1/2 the XP of the Secondary class to reach it's next level. So to go from 1/1 to 2/1 you add the 2nd level XP of the first class, and 1/2 the XP for second level of the second class. Then to go to 3/2 you add the 3rd level XP of the first, and 1/2 the second level XP of the second. This makes a new progression chart so you have something like the following, showing both BtB and my alternate. I also allow the abilities of the supporting class at level 1 as level 1 rather than level 0.

Code:
               BtB C&H
Level   FXP      TXP     Total    F/R
  1        0        0         0   1/0
  2     2001      626      2627   2/1
  3     4001     1251      5252   3/1
  4     8501     3001     11502   4/2
  5    17001     6001     23002   5/2


               My C&H
Level   FXP      TXP     Total    F/R
  1        0        0         0   1/1
  2     2001      626      2627   2/1
  3     4001      626      4627   3/2
  4     8501     1251      9752   4/2
  5    17001     1251     18252   5/3

Author:  T1Hound [ Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

I have used the "multi-classes" from Astonishing Swordsmen. I just replace skill checks with C&C Siege Engine checks.

Author:  mgtremaine [ Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

T1Hound wrote:
I have used the "multi-classes" from Astonishing Swordsmen. I just replace skill checks with C&C Siege Engine checks.


I'm not familiar with that? I have the AS&SH 1E boxset but I don't see multi-class (subclass?) would love to hear more.

---

As for me I ran Class-and-Half BTB thus far with C&C and it has been fine. Here are my reasons, 1) I always felt that people who multi-classed tended to drift more towards one class then the other so Class and Half sort of forces the choice at the start. 2) Multi Class is often a power gaming choice and limiting that was something I wanted to do when I picked up C&C. In the first long campaign I had only 1 person took a Class and Half (Dwarven Rogue/Wizard) and it was well done, player enjoyed it and the level stayed even with the rest. (The PC are 9th -> 11th now)

Later I ran a Bard/Druid and it played close to my AD&D Bard although spell power was a little off and obviously level progress is way slower. But AD&D Bards are sort of whacky.

I think Koralas might be on to something with his tweak I'm going to look at that with some of the

-Mike

Author:  Captain_K [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

Domesday IX has experience side by side for all classes and for multi and class and a half... if you want to see tables of numbers. If you want the excel files just PM me and I'll email them to you. Really should put them on the Knights of the Crusade for down load...

Author:  T1Hound [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you handle multiclass?

mgtremaine wrote:
T1Hound wrote:
I have used the "multi-classes" from Astonishing Swordsmen. I just replace skill checks with C&C Siege Engine checks.


I'm not familiar with that? I have the AS&SH 1E boxset but I don't see multi-class (subclass?) would love to hear more.

---

As for me I ran Class-and-Half BTB thus far with C&C and it has been fine. Here are my reasons, 1) I always felt that people who multi-classed tended to drift more towards one class then the other so Class and Half sort of forces the choice at the start. 2) Multi Class is often a power gaming choice and limiting that was something I wanted to do when I picked up C&C. In the first long campaign I had only 1 person took a Class and Half (Dwarven Rogue/Wizard) and it was well done, player enjoyed it and the level stayed even with the rest. (The PC are 9th -> 11th now)

Later I ran a Bard/Druid and it played close to my AD&D Bard although spell power was a little off and obviously level progress is way slower. But AD&D Bards are sort of whacky.

I think Koralas might be on to something with his tweak I'm going to look at that with some of the

-Mike


Hi Mike - This would be in the 2nd printing (the big thick book). They have added sub-classes such as the: scout (ranger/thief), legerdemainist (thief/wizard), the purloiner (cleric/thief), etc. which is a nice combination of the various classes that are not as powerful as the single classes. For example, a slower spell progress, not all the thief skills, etc.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/