Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:59 am
Hold Animal (D) and Hold Person (C) at 2nd level. Hold Monster (undead) at 5th level but only for wizards.
I'm thinking a Cleric should be able, with say the touch of their holy symbol, be able to "hold undead" as a 3rd level spell (due to touch attack no save?).
Then a ranged attack, 50', Hold Undead (WIS negates) at 4th level.
Anyone have such spells? Seems simple enough. Anyone have a reason not to allow them to hold one undead at a time?
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:48 am
HOLD UNDEAD, Level 4 cleric
CT 1 R 50 ft. D 1 rd./lvl.
SV WIS negates SR yes Comp V, S, M, DF
This spell holds a single undead rigidly in place. It is aware but cannot take any physical action. It can, however, execute purely mental actions.
The material component for this spell is spider silk from a crypt, grave site, or burial mound.
STUN UNDEAD, Level 3 cleric
CT 1 R touch D d4 rds.
SV none SR yes Comp V, S, DF
This spell stuns a single undead in a similar fashion as the monk ability stun attack. The cleric must make a touch attack against the undead using their holy symbol to touch the undead. If the attack scores a hit with the holy symbol the undead is stunned and unable to act for d4 rounds (the undead get no save to avoid this affect).
The material component for this spell is the cleric’s holy symbol.
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:54 am
nice I like it !
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:29 pm
I think there should be a save, at least for the more powerful undead. Stunning a vampire seems pretty powerful for a 5th level cleric
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:27 pm
Though it does note that Undead are *immune* to stun, paralysis, disease, mind affecting, and a host of other status conditions per the M&T. Also, doesn't touching undead with a holy symbol inflicts damage as if it were holy water in most cases which would automatically break the stun since it provides a counter shock.
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:39 pm
If the holding is a sort of force effect, similar to turning but that it prevents movement, I could see it -- would depend on how it is presented. AD&D had a hold undead spell so C&C could as well, if someone wanted it. Not that any precedence is needed.
I personally would likely not name it hold undead or stun undead, though those are obvious in result so work well.
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:00 pm
5th level wizard hold monster specifically notes that it holds undead. So looking at the range of hold spells: animal for druid and hold person for everyone then hold monster for only wizards I felt the cleric needed hold undead to be unique to the cleric... that is his turf. I added the stun undead to be a lower level "crap I failed to turn and here it comes" second try with your holy symbol to give the bad guy some "pause"... possibly change the title to Delay Undead or Recoil from Holy Symbol or Fear of God. Anyway, the cleric has to score a hit with a holy symbol, normally when that occurs no save. Normal Stun is +2 to be hit but by adding the monk bit in that undead cannot take an offensive action for d4 rounds. Seemed like a nice pause, not a full turn, but if you stand by your faith, you can get one of them you're willing to go toe to toe with a little something to think about your God's power (even if you just failed your turn). Switching that to a CHA save and make it have really short range would add in the incorporeal undead which are hard to hit unless you holy symbol is pretty special.. which it could be should this spell be desired to use.
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:16 pm
As a quick note, I like the concept; a cleric of appropriate level should, I think, be able to inflict a hold/paralysis spell on undead much as a ghoul/ghast is able to do so when attacking a PC/NPC target.
While turning results in an immediate outcome - the undead get the heck out of there as fast as possible - such a spell should, as suggested, I think, probably have a save for the "unique" undead; vampires, ghosts and liches. While the hold undead
spell should probably be one that a cleric (druid as well, possibly as a fourth level or thereabouts spell) develops as a result of their own construction/arrangement with their deity, rather than out of the "common" divine spellbook, I think it'd be something that various priesthoods would have as a not-unknown resource. Nice work, Captain_K.
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:17 am
Perhaps in addition to turning undead a cleric could have the option of holding undead using the same ability. Turning could have the effect of causing undead to flee or to stay frozen in place depending on the cleric's command.
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:25 am
the turn undead is 10 combat rounds then they can if they "want" or are commanded come back just as fast.. so turn gives you some time and preparation for their return... the hold option says, OK guys, take this guy out now. I like that option.. You have turn or destroy if many levels above (5 I think) then at 2 or 3 levels above the turn could be a command to stay in place and be pummeled to dysfunction....
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:58 am
Nothing to do with the subject at hand - just chose this thread 'cause it's the first one I could see - but just wanted to note down: I picked up Monsters & Treasure
fifth printing tonight; yes, it was definitely a few bucks out of pocket, but the results are well, well worth it. The monsters are kept to their usual minimalist stat assignments, and the descriptions - quite detailed in some cases - leave the door open for the enterprising CK to alter and/or make up stuff for him/herself.
The artwork is another point to take pride in, avoiding the overdone, overbearing portraits common in other games' monster manuals. To Peter Bradley and the rest of the art crew, too many to name here...all congratulations.
Hoping to see more of Troll Lord Games' stuff as 2020 comes and advances. All best.
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:18 pm
I agree, so much is nice in these books, from the beginning the game has a good core and allows freedom.
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
phpBB Mobile / SEO by Artodia.