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Necromancer class for C&C; please review :) 
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Ungern
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Post Necromancer class for C&C; please review :)
Okay, maybe some people here actually remember when I started out with that class. Well, it looks like it's as good as finished now, after a lot of interrupts and one hard drive crash. The only exception is that I still haven't found a good way to integrate the Death Hulk into C&C, but I think people will be able to create their own undead ships crewed by zombies and skeletons.
Anyway, for your perusal and with the request for your criticism and errata, here's my version of the Necromancer. http://www.mediafire.com/?8yz9wj9wlgz

EDIT: I replaced the doc file with an updated pdf, with 0-level spells and Turning at 1st level. In case I update the file again, I'll post the link here as well as in a new post at the end of the thread.


Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:51 pm
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Red Cap

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Is that something that you could put in a post here? I would like to see it, however I am a bit apprehensive about signing up to download the file.
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Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:56 pm
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Mogrl

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You must be windowsXP or older. The new windows scrambles those documents for me, even for wordpad, etc...

Can you just post it here?

For those of you who use the download link, the site sucks. You go down and click on the "free" button, then it takes you to a new page where you select who you want the download to go through and type in the security code, then you wait.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:59 pm
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Ungern
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I can post the most important parts of it, yeah...the whole document is a bit long, since I added the spell descriptions of all new spells to it. So I'll simply post the class description bits.
And yep, I wrote the whole thing on Office 2000 sorry for any potential inconveniences. I wish I could post attachments here, would make some things either.
The Necromancer

W

hile many believe that matters of life and death are the sole province of the divine, there are rumors of an ancient arcane art that deals with the dead, the manipulation of life, and even the creation of undead. Those who study this art call themselves necromancers, a title that literally means those who speak with the dead. Shunned and avoided by others, in some places even persecuted, these necromancers search old tombs and ancient libraries for the knowledge lost to time and ignorant fear.

Necromancers use arcane magic to create undead to do their bidding, manipulate positive and negative energies to either heal or harm their targets, and summon the souls of the dead to converse with them. The general unpleasantness of being around the bodies of dead creatures and the sinister reputation necromancers suffer as a whole leads to them pursuing their studies away from most civilization, only interacting with it to purchase necessary ingredients or hire assistants for their laboratories. Additionally, their work is viewed with a widespread distaste by most churches and temples, since priests and clerics view them as trespassers on the province of their deities. Often, persecution and eradication is the risk a necromancer faces when following his call. A third problem a beginning necromancer faces is the relative scarcity of teachers and knowledge. Experienced necromancers are hard to locate and to persuade to take on an apprentice, and the knowledge of the art itself is hidden in ancient tomes and buried laboratories, which is why necromancers still require the company of adventurers to help them in unearthing that knowledge.

The demand for a sharp intellect and a morbid curiosity for the workings of life and death are required to digest the insights which come with the study of necromancy. Besides that, necromancers can show very different motivations, from the clinical interest in anatomy, the desire to combat suffering and illness, to the desire to conquer with the help of an undead army. Religion is a touchy topic, for many a necromancer has felt the sting of persecution at least once in his lifetime, and yet there are those that turn to the worship of dark gods in order to gain deeper insights into the secrets of undeath and immortality. There are even those who ply their healing spells alongside healers of divine persuasion without fear.

Necromancers are generally untrained in any martial arts, and unfamiliar with the use of mundane armor. Their spells being their best tools to manipulate life and death, and to call up allies from beyond the grave, they generally disdain such crude things as weapons and armor in the first place. They are able to handle the most basic of weapons, the dagger and the quarterstaff, since these are often part of a necromancers ritual and spellcasting. Any use of armor or shields will deny the necromancer the freedom to cast his spells properly though.

Abilities

Spells: A necromancer can cast arcane spells similar to a wizard or an illusionist, even though his magics are fundamentally different in structure to those of the other two arcane traditions. He has to obey the exact same limits as they concerning spell preparation and spell casting, and the number of spells per day he is allowed to memorize is taken from the Wizard and Illusionist Spells per Day Table in the Wizard entry in the C&C PHB.

Bonus Spells: A necromancer gains bonus spells from a high Intelligence score akin to a wizard or illusionist.

Turn or Control Undead (Cha): Due to his intimate knowledge of the workings of undead beings and his own power over the forces of life and death, upon reaching 3rd level a necromancer can attempt to turn undead creatures with a Charisma check. The necromancer can turn only one type of undead at the same time, and the Challenge Level of the attempt is the number of HD of the undead type. If the attempt is successful, the number of turned undead is determined similar to a clerics turning result, and for common undead is 1d12 + the necromancers Charisma modifier. If the difference between the necromancers level and the HD of the undead he is turning is 5 or more, he can choose to either destroy them outright, or force them under his control as if he created them.
Necromancer Spells

Spells for the necromancer spell list, where not taken from the C&C Players Handbook, are taken from the D20 SRD as well as several D20 supplements and were either converted directly, or were modified in one or more aspects in order to fit better into the Castles & Crusades game. The sources for those spells are given in parentheses after the spells name. Spells marked with a * are reversible, and can be prepared either in their normal or their reversed version during preaparation. The necromancer needs only the normal version of the spell recorded in his spellbook to have access to the reversed version.
Cantrips

Animate Vermin (Hollowfaust)

Detect Dead (EA - Necromancy)

Disrupt Undead

Identify Undead (EA - Necromancy)

Partial Animation (Secret College)

Skull Snare (EA - Necromancy)

Watchful Eye (Secret College)
1st level

Ancient Wisdom (Secret College)

Bone Armor (Secret College)

Cadaver Dance (Hollowfaust)

Call Undead (Secret College)

Cause Fear*

Chill Touch

Dead Man's Eyes (Secret College)

Ghost Writing* (Secret College)

Grave Claws (Secret College)

Protection from Undead (EA - Necromancy)

Ray of Enfeeblement

Ray of Palsy (Secret College)

Wound (EA - Necromancy)
2nd level

Ancient Spirit (Secret College)

Animate Dead, Lesser (Eldritch Sorcery)

Bleeding Wound (EA - Necromancy)

Ghoul Touch

Ghost Sight(Secret College)

Life Bolt (Magic of Faerun)

Negative Energy Armor (Eldritch Sorcery)

Pestilential Vapors (Secret College)

Scare

Sensory Link (EA - Necromancy)

Spectral Hand

Undead Warding (Secret College)

Voice of Deathly Whispers (EA - Necromancy)
3rd level

Animate Dead, Greater

Armor of Undeath (Relics & Rituals)

Bonetrap (Eldritch Sorcery)

Essence Transfusion (Eldritch Sorcery)

Feign Death (Eldritch Sorcery)

Gentle Repose

Halt Undead

Hemorraging Wound (Eldritch Sorcery)

Shadow Touch (EA - Necromancy)

Speak with Dead

Undead Conduit (EA - Necromancy)

Vampiric Touch*

Wraithtouch (Hollowfaust)
4th level

Bolster Undead (Secret College)

Bone Construct (Hollowfaust)

Contagion

Enervation

Fear

Ghoulish Curse (EA Necromancy)

Hands of Death (Secret College)

Wall of Bone (EA - Necromancy)
5th level

Curse of Blood (Secret College)

Face of Death (Secret College)

Heat Bone (Eldritch Sorcery)

Lifeleech (Eldritch Sorcery)

Longevity* (Secret College)

Magic Jar

Necrotic Touch (Eldritch Sorcery)

Plague (Secret College)

Recall Spirit (EA - Necromancy)
6th level

Circle of Death

Create Undead

Death Gaze (Eldritch Sorcery)

Drain Life (Secret College)

Rot Flesh (Secret College)

Shroud of Death* (Eldritch Sorcery)

Unfetter Undead (EA - Necromancy)
7th level

Chain Enervation (Eldritch Sorcery)

Control Undead

Dust (Secret College)

Essence Shift (Hollowfaust)

Finger of Death

From the Ashes (Secret College)

Legion of Skeletons or Zombies (Secret College)

Raise Death Hulk (EA - Necromancy)

Soulstrike (Relics & Rituals)
8th level

Clone

Create Greater Undead

Death Bringer (Eldritch Sorcery)

Flesh Made Foul (EA - Necromancy)

Horrid Wilting

Immortality (Secret College)

Legion of Ghouls or Shadows (Secret College)

Shadow Skin (EA - Necromancy)

Soul Switch (Secret College)

Zephyr of Death (Eldritch Sorcery)
9th level

Astal Projection

Deathless Eternity (Secret College)

Energy Drain

Legion of Mummies or Wraiths (Secret College)

Raise City (EA - Necromancy)

Raise Death Fleet (EA - Necromancy)

Soul Bind

Soul Exchange (Hollowfaust)

Wail of the Banshee


Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:33 pm
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Mogrl

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What's "EA" as one of the spell sources, I have all the rest, just EA isn't ringing a bell for me.

Do you by chance know how to use that free PDF making site? PDF works consistantly for me.

Or post your spell write ups separately?

As for me, this write up works. I've always been of the opinion that being a Necroamncer is more a definiton fo the spells they use more than anything else.

I still like a chart of "markings" or disfigurements the more seriously you explore the dark arts. Personally I like to use a variant of "taint" charts I have seen. Its probably the Taint system in Ravenloft 3E.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:52 pm
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Ungern
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Yeah, I can post it as pdf as well..but I wanted to wait with making it a pdf until I had added the XP table, one or two more pictures and gone over it for some errata again. Spell writeups are posted up to level 7 in the old Dragonsfoot thread about the Necromancer I started back then. I could simply convert it to rtf format, does that work with the newer office versions still?

About Taint and similar mechanics..while I like those too (especially for Rokugan), I wanted to create a "morally neutral" necromancer class that leaves the necromantic healer option open as well, or the clinically detached anatomist.

The EA shot is for Encyclopaedia Arcane: Necromancy sourcebook.


Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:59 pm
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Red Cap

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I too, would like to see more. I do like what you have so far. If I snagged this, one thing I would do is integrate some of the spells from the Atomik Grimoire, which is the magic system I use with C&C and I actually Atomik-ized a few C&C spells to add even more spell diversity.
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Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:01 pm
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Ungern
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Quote:
pactmaster wrote:
I too, would like to see more. I do like what you have so far. If I snagged this, one thing I would do is integrate some of the spells from the Atomik Grimoire, which is the magic system I use with C&C and I actually Atomik-ized a few C&C spells to add even more spell diversity.



Well, as Treebore mentioned, you can download the doc for free with that link. You click it, scroll all the way down on the page and click the FREE button. Next page, you wait until the timer gives you your download ticket, and then asks you to enter one of those stupid alphanumeric combinations into that field. Then you get to download the file. Sorry for the bother, but it's the best way I know for free filehosting.


Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:05 pm
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Mogrl

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Quote:
Geron Raveneye wrote:
Yeah, I can post it as pdf as well..but I wanted to wait with making it a pdf until I had added the XP table, one or two more pictures and gone over it for some errata again. Spell writeups are posted up to level 7 in the old Dragonsfoot thread about the Necromancer I started back then. I could simply convert it to rtf format, does that work with the newer office versions still?

About Taint and similar mechanics..while I like those too (especially for Rokugan), I wanted to create a "morally neutral" necromancer class that leaves the necromantic healer option open as well, or the clinically detached anatomist.

The EA shot is for Encyclopaedia Arcane: Necromancy sourcebook.



Cool! I have those off of DF. I don't remember if I opened those yet. I'll have to go check now.

I look forward to the PDF, and I think I have EA, but I'll have to check to be sure.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:06 pm
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Ungern
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Okay, for those who waited for the pdf version, here it is. I cribbed some illustrations from the net and other publications (for private use I really hope that is okay), actually added the 0-level spell descriptions (had to extract them from their pdf, since I had lost the doc), and changed Turning to a 1st level ability. I hope the MediaFire link will work better than Rapidshare. http://www.mediafire.com/?8yz9wj9wlgz


Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:37 pm
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Skobbit

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It looks neat to me. But then, I am newer to C&C so I don't know if it "balances", but still, looks good. Reminds me of a PC one og my buddies played fr a while, he was a LG Necromancer who studied undeath to defeat it.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:13 pm
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Renegade Mage
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This does look pretty sweet (by glancing through it quickly).

I've been wanting a Necromancer class for some time to have a class to balance off against the Illusionist. I know there was something like one from an old Dragon Magazine but this one might fit the bill!

I'll take a look over the next few days to provide a more in depth analysis but I like what you did. Thanks for the PDF version BTW ... although I had no problem with the doc, the 'W' in the first word didn't translate through since I guess I didn't have the right font (or the picture just wasn't loaded if it was an image).

With regards to the artwork, what I suggest is you at least credit the art at the end of the document and maybe indicated that the document is intended for private use. Nice choices of art though and thanks for all the work you've put in for this!

M
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Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:51 pm
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Hlobane Orc

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Sounds like an interesting class but without all the spell book resources, I cannot see what the spells are about if they are not included in the C&C PHB. So I'll have to assume they're all full of rotting deadly goodness.
On that thought (spell list, not rotting deadly goodness) -- is there an online source for spells that is easily tapped, for those of us who do not have a room dedicated as a library to RPG tomes written over the last 30 years?
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Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:13 pm
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Mogrl

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I only wish there was more uniqueness to the class, rather than being a conglomerate of Open resources... but, that is the point of the Open movement, so I can't complain too much. But, I also see the necromancer as something else... something actually true to the word, rather than what it has become.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:15 pm
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Quote:
Alcahaelas wrote:
Sounds like an interesting class but without all the spell book resources, I cannot see what the spells are about if they are not included in the C&C PHB. So I'll have to assume they're all full of rotting deadly goodness.
On that thought (spell list, not rotting deadly goodness) -- is there an online source for spells that is easily tapped, for those of us who do not have a room dedicated as a library to RPG tomes written over the last 30 years?



For these particular spells, if you select to download the PDF from the most recent link provided (a bit earlier in the thread... it's the mediafire one), you get the class, spell list and the spell descriptions!

M
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Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:08 pm
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Hlobane Orc

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Excellent! I like it. I may let one of my veteran players take a swing at this class if they're up for it, or generate an NPC Necro that consistently hires/blackmails the current group to protect/serve him/her in their quest/ambition to battle evil/subjugate the world.
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There are lots of explanations that a clever CK can use to bullshit any roll.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:43 pm
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Ungern
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Quote:
moriarty777 wrote:
This does look pretty sweet (by glancing through it quickly).

I've been wanting a Necromancer class for some time to have a class to balance off against the Illusionist. I know there was something like one from an old Dragon Magazine but this one might fit the bill!

I'll take a look over the next few days to provide a more in depth analysis but I like what you did. Thanks for the PDF version BTW ... although I had no problem with the doc, the 'W' in the first word didn't translate through since I guess I didn't have the right font (or the picture just wasn't loaded if it was an image).

With regards to the artwork, what I suggest is you at least credit the art at the end of the document and maybe indicated that the document is intended for private use. Nice choices of art though and thanks for all the work you've put in for this!

M



Thanks for the hint about the "W", obviously I forgot to integrate the fonts into the document! Will correct that asap.

About the credits and the notice...good point. I was wondering at first if I needed to attach the OGL to that thing, but since I don't intend to publish it for commercial use, I hope a "Private Use Only" notice will suffice. Crediting the artists...maybe I should simply email them all and ask if I am allowed to use those pics in a private document.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:46 pm
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Ungern
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Quote:
Alcahaelas wrote:
Excellent! I like it. I may let one of my veteran players take a swing at this class if they're up for it, or generate an NPC Necro that consistently hires/blackmails the current group to protect/serve him/her in their quest/ambition to battle evil/subjugate the world.



Glad you like it. When you got play results, post them here, I'd really like to know how it holds up in play.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:51 pm
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Mogrl

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[quote="Geron Raveneye]

Thanks for the hint about the "W", obviously I forgot to integrate the fonts into the document! Will correct that asap.

About the credits and the notice...good point. I was wondering at first if I needed to attach the OGL to that thing, but since I don't intend to publish it for commercial use, I hope a "Private Use Only" notice will suffice. Crediting the artists...maybe I should simply email them all and ask if I am allowed to use those pics in a private document.[/quote]

Its private and not making any money. The artist idea is a good courtesy, but as long as you give them credit your doing all you need to do. If you were making money off of this it would be a different story.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:46 pm
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Mogrl

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BTW, the PDF is awesome. The only thing I see that I would change is up the base XP requirements by 400, because of the very powerful, for a necromancer, Turn Undead ability.

So it would be 3,001 XP to make second, and then extrapolate from there.

6,001

12,001

24,001

48,001

96,001

192,001

384,001

768,001 (10th level)

Or if that seems too pricey, XP wise, do it at 200 XP.

So

2,801

5,601

11,201

22,401

44,801

89,601

etc...
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:58 pm
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Ungern
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That's why I'm hoping for the CkG, to get my hands on the XP building tables for character classes. I'll cross-check the necromancer first thing with those. Should prove to be interesting.
And I'm really happy people like it...looking forward to anybody posting how it handled in play situations. I tried to keep it as focussed on its "stick" as the Illusionist is, yet give it a little flexibility. I hope that worked out.

Next stop...simple skill system for C&C.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:22 pm
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Quote:
Geron Raveneye wrote:
That's why I'm hoping for the CkG, to get my hands on the XP building tables for character classes. I'll cross-check the necromancer first thing with those. Should prove to be interesting.



What about toning the Turn Undead ability down a bit instead of the higher EPP cost?

M
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Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:29 pm
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Ungern
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Would be an alternative, but I was planning to stay with the PHB material so far, because that would make it easier to use any "XP deconstruction system" they might publish in the CKG later.

Also, I thought if I took out the two class abilities of the Illusionist, and instead put in the one from the cleric, it would balance out somehow without being too problematic.


Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:47 pm
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Mist Elf

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I am creating an idea of the necromancer as a magical version of Leonardo Da Vinci in regards to his study of the human anatomy.

Necromancer's record their works in multiple language ciphers and keep them locked away in secret places. In this regard they have several powerful spells to both hide their research, and to disuade or injure those that seek to find it.

I am thinking they would have the ability to turn/control undead.

I like the suggestion that their alignment eventually becomes evil.

I am thinking they should have a bonus on saving throws versus disease, energy drain, poison, death attacks and fear. Have the bonus work like the bonus the Barbarian gains from the Primal Force ability.

Does anyone have a necromancer spell list, that is limited to spells in the castles and crusades player's handbook.

I ask because, I have compiled a list, but would like to compare against someone elses list. Here is mine.

0-th

arcane mark

detect magic

detect poison

first aid

ghost sound

light

mage hand

prestidigitation

1st

alarm

comprehend languages

cure light wounds*

daze

detect undead

erase

hold portal

identify

invisibility to undead

read magic

remove fear*

sleep

2nd

consecrate*

darkness

magic mouth

misdirection

ray of enfeeblement

scare

speak with dead

summon swarm

3rd

animate dead

explosive runes

illusory script

glyph of warding

non-detection

remove curse*

remove disease*

secret page

stinking cloud

tongues

4th

arcane eye

confusion

detect scrying

emotion

fear

fire trap

illusory wall

reincarnate

repel vermin

scrying

shadow conjuration

5th

cloudkill

death ward

dream

false vision

feeblemind

greater shadow conjuration

insect plague

magic jar

nightmare

raise dead

secret chest

shadow evocation

true seeing

6th

antilife shell

create undead

disintegrate

greater shadow evocation

guards and wards

mislead

move earth

shades

transmute flesh and stone

7th

creeping doom

finger of death

greater scrying

insanity

instant summons

power word stun

regenerate

sequester

shadow walk

simulacrum

vision

8th

clone

create greater undead

incendiary cloud

maze

mind blank

power word blind

screen

symbol

trap the soul

9th

energy drain

imprisonment

power word kill

refuge

soul bind

temporal stasis

trap the soul

weird


Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:22 am
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