DM Dice Rolling Prefrence

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Naleax
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DM Dice Rolling Prefrence

Post by Naleax »

I was wondering how some of you CK's or DM's roll dice. My prefrence is to roll all attack and damage rolls in front of the party. I generally roll all rolls that could give players information that they are not privy to behind the screen. An example would be hiding. A player does not know and should not know how well he is hidden when he makes his hide in shadows roll.

I don't like DM Fiat or cheating behind the screen, i'm not very good at it as a DM and as a player i don't like it either. As a player i need to feel that the adventure is risky and that characters could die. If i know the DM is fudging his rolls it feels like the players can get away with anything and the game feels less immersive and less risky.

I have a couple of players that prefer i roll behind the screen and another that likes to see the attack and damage rolls out in the open. Right now i am rolling in front of everyone but to simulate DM fiat i give my players 2 karma points to start the game and 1 karma point at the beginning of every game but they can never have more than 2 at any given time. They can use these karma points to change a successful roll of mine into a failure and or a failed roll of theirs into a success. Thats the basics they can do a few more things with karma to turn the game in their favor.

So if some of you CK's or DM's could chime in with some info about how you make your dice rolls I would be very interested to see what works for you.

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Post by serleran »

I don't roll dice. I just make up the numbers.

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Post by Go0gleplex »

Party doesn't get to see any of my rolls. muwahahahahaaaa
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Post by Omote »

I roll almost all of my rolls behind the screen. DM fiat... hell, I'll fudge a dice roll now and again to make the story roll along or the game generally better. I guess whatever makes the game better, I'll try to do. If that means faking a die roll every now and again, I'll do what needs to be done. This is one of the perfect reasons for a screen.

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Post by Treebore »

When I run games on line I usually roll in the open. Occasionally I make the extra effort to roll on a hidden CK screen.

Face to face I roll behind my screen and use CK fiat whenever needed. Which is rarely with luck roll rules added in. Which is why I am glad I finally adapted such rules. Much less CK fiat, and much more "luck of the dice".
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Post by Morgrus »

Depends on the system and the group. Mostly behind the screen ,but I have always liked having a line of prerolled 20s in front of me, it's like predestinations on paper.
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Post by Lord Dynel »

Yeah, I'll roll behind the screen. Maybe a dramatic critical hit roll or SIEGE check in which something dramatic hangs in the balance, but other than that, all my rolls are behind the screen. In the open, it's hard (or next to impossible, if you want to maintain any believability) to undo any bad rolls - ones that will kill (or otherwise drastically hamper) your party outright. Unless you want them dead, of course. No, don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to killing party members (or the whole party) but I usually reserve that for big events, not just random encounters, unless it's just a killer random encounter.
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Post by Frost »

I roll mostly behind the screen, more of force of habit than anything. I don't fudge rolls. I do like to roll in front of the screen from time to time. I usually do so for dramatic effect. Even though my players know I let the dice fall where they may, there is nothing quite like rolling in front of them to remind them of this. Sometimes I'm simply walking around the table and rolling for individual melees and it's easier to roll as I go (rather than moving minis and then jumping behind the screen to roll).
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Post by Mike Frank »

The majority of the time I roll in the open for all to see -- I often dispense with the screen. I do hide and roll any of the PC's ability checks when the PC would not immediately know whether the action was successful or not. e.g. Move silent, hide, detect traps, teleport, ect. That being said, there are times when I know a certain roll MUST turn out a certain way. In those cases I hide the roll and make things turn out as necessary -- never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

As a player, I know there is a chance of PC death when PC's die in the game. In the last five weeks, there have been three PC deaths -- all the same player -- not entirely his fault, just some very unlucky rolls for him and some very good rolls for the GM. I have never seen so many natural 20's and 1's rolled in such a short time -- and I did SEE them. In a single combat, I saw one player roll two 1's in a row as he was hit with 20's in two successive rounds. In that same combat, one of the other PC's rolled two 1's (not successive). That resulted in a party retreat -- well, most of the party anyway. That was the third PC death.

If a GM were going to fudge some rolls, this would have been the place to do it -- it's not all that fun to roll up a character and have him die every week. BUT, some of us have attained 3rd level now and we seem to be a bit more stable (and cautious) -- and we will NEVER forget our turbulent beginnings. Nor will we believe that the GM is just handing things out to us -- we are earning our rewards and we know it.

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Post by Crusader »

Quote:
That being said, there are times when I know a certain roll MUST turn out a certain way. In those cases I hide the roll and make things turn out as necessary

I always roll behind the screen. The example above is a dead giveaway when the CK is fudging. otherwise leave them guessing.

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Post by Mike Frank »

Crusader wrote:
I always roll behind the screen. The example above is a dead giveaway when the CK is fudging. otherwise leave them guessing.

I guess if you skip my opening sentence, then that makes sense. But I said "The majority" of the time I roll out in the open. If I were only hiding the rolls that I know may require a fudge, then that would be a dead giveaway. So, there are rolls taking place behind the screen occasionally and they are not ONLY PC ability checks. If I am checking an enemy NPC ability, I certainly don't roll that out in the open either.

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Post by ThrorII »

Omote wrote:
I roll almost all of my rolls behind the screen. DM fiat... hell, I'll fudge a dice roll now and again to make the story roll along or the game generally better. I guess whatever makes the game better, I'll try to do. If that means faking a die roll every now and again, I'll do what needs to be done. This is one of the perfect reasons for a screen.

-O

ditto, word for word.

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Post by cinderblock »

I like to roll the dice with my hands. I find most other ways difficult. And my players get annoyed when I spit the dice at them and scream "Take that Evil-doer!"

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Post by dunbruha »

I always roll in the open--I don't use a screen. I do hide rolls that the character wouldn't know about (hide, etc.). If I'm going to fudge something, it's the creature's stats (i.e., remaining hit points), not the rolls.

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Post by Jyrdan Fairblade »

For years I've rolled behind the screen. But lately I've been thinking about going almost completely open.

I, like many, have been known to fudge a roll or two to move the story or speed up a combat that's dragging.

An odd dice habit of mine is that I always have to roll my dice on a hardback book. They just seem to roll better that way...

Valerian

Post by Valerian »

I roll almost all dice behind the screen . I roll a few in front of the payers for dramatic effect . Sometimes I let players roll monster attacks on each other . You would be surprised how many players like to roll natural 20's against their friends. I generally don't fudge rolls but I will occasionally , but i do just as often in favor of the monsters . If would make for a a better encounter than the big bad villain will hit or make a level save to hold onto a spell being cast ect. I never let these fudges directly end in a player death . I also will probaly fudge a roll in their favor later.
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Re: DM Dice Rolling Prefrence

Post by Jonathan of White Haven »

Naleax wrote:
I was wondering how some of you CK's or DM's roll dice. My prefrence is to roll all attack and damage rolls in front of the party. I generally roll all rolls that could give players information that they are not privy to behind the screen. An example would be hiding. A player does not know and should not know how well he is hidden when he makes his hide in shadows roll.

The overwhelming majority of my rolls are made behind the screen. These include random encounters, reaction rolls for NPCs, initiative, combat, damage, and the occasional meaningless random roll, just to keep the jitters going.

On occasion, I will show a player what I have rolled, especially if there's what appears (to me) to be consternation or disbelief that I actually {b]did[/b] roll a pair of 20s. In the case of a mage who has cast "Mirror Image" on himself, on a potential hit I will roll the appropriate die (d4, d6, et cetera) and say that on a 1, the PC takes the hit, then roll the die in front of the screen. 'Tis only fair, as I see it.
Quote:
I don't like DM Fiat or cheating behind the screen, i'm not very good at it as a DM and as a player i don't like it either. As a player i need to feel that the adventure is risky and that characters could die. If i know the DM is fudging his rolls it feels like the players can get away with anything and the game feels less immersive and less risky.

Every so often, I will fudge a die roll. On those occasions, it's been in the party's favor, especially if the roll is going to hugely and negatively affect the party. I will do this if I see that the alternative is likely to be a complete and epic fail for the party. On the other hand, I regularly do my damndest to kill PCs. I've come close several times. But the game is still young...

"DM's fiat"? My definition of that is: The DM has underestimated the PCs and/or the players and is willing to cheat in order to "beat" the players and regain "control". That kind of activity is, for me, unacceptable. When I discover a DM who does that, I refuse to play in that person's game. Examples:

One DM, upon virtually any character (especially magic users) reaching 5th level, would do everything he could to kill off that PC. And this was one of the so-called "East Coast Killer Dungeons". I've no idea why he was so paranoid that a PC might actually be successful. Perhaps it was a contol issue.

Another DM maneuvered one of my characters into becoming (much against my will) the Emperor of the land in which he lived. This effectively took that poor, 6th level (!) PC out of the campaign for over a year's worth (real time--in effect, four years game time) of playing. But the DM was too smart for his own good. The Bandit Lord ("Robert of Locksley"--look him up) was given safe passage to negotiate a truce/armistice/whatever with the Emperor. He claimed that my PC's father had stolen all of his property. I asked what it was. He said, "He stole the throne of the Kingdom, and I want it back!" My answer? "No problem! It's yours!", handed him the crown and sceptre, and vamoosed.

But not until after I'd rifled the Imperial Treasury and Magic Item Vault. Several portable holes, a few dozen servants wielding scoop shovels, and knowledge of the M.I. Vault inventory allowed my PC to establish a freehold elsewhere and live a comfortable life. In a completely different campaign. (I may be crazy, but I am not stupid. There's no way that character would have been allowed to live after that theft.)

The look on the DM's face after my PC's abdication: Priceless. After he discovered that the Treasury had been heisted, I thought he was going to burst a blood vessel...
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Post by cinderblock »

Well played clerks.... well played.

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Post by Treebore »

Yeah, I don't use "DM Fiat" to screw characters, I use it to keep them alive, usually due to the encounter playing out deadlier then I anticipated, often due to the players getting a run on lousy rolls, sometimes a creatures power or powers is deadlier then it seemed to be on paper.

Still, my current on line Tuesday night game has had all rolls out in the open, I can only think that the players knowing that they avoided dying or TPK's by a hairs breadth/one roll gives them a certain amount of extra satisfaction in their accomplishments.

Of course I think its because the dice rolling program is sentient and hates me.
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Post by DangerDwarf »

I generally roll dice behind the screen, especially for my at random die rolling to make them think something is up. I occasionally use rolls in the open for dramatic effect.

For example, through the combat my dice are always behind the screen. It's been an extremely tough fight, the villain is making an attack on the party fighter who has few enough hit points that this attack can kill him. I "accidentally miss" my DM screen and roll it down the center of the table, watching as they all lean forward, holding their breath to see the outcome of the roll.

Like anything else, dice are tools that can greatly enhance the play experience by pulling innocuous little tricks like that.

Morgrus

Post by Morgrus »

DangerDwarf wrote:
Like anything else, dice are tools that can greatly enhance the play experience by pulling innocuous little tricks like that.

Pluss they make great welts when shot from a rubber band. Its allso great fun to see how many you can spin at once. Or if you can toss em down your wifes shirt..O.O Hmm thougt o a new thread...zooooom...
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Post by Craig C »

I roll in front of the pcs for attack and damage- we do have a parry system though so they always have a chance of parrying hits.

I also get players to roll for most wandering monster checks etc and just roll random dice for the hell of it then tell them that nothing happens to them
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Post by GameOgre »

I make all rolls out in the open and never fudge a roll (or event) to save the group or kill them.

Sometimes this has lead to the PC's walking all over a bad guy or to a full party wipe. Thats ok with me and my players seem to love it.

My game isnt so much about me telling a story as it is us as a group playing a game that is challenging and fun. They know that there actions and skill as well as luck play a huge part in things and that death is close at hand. I will not save them just to save our fun for the night.
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Post by Tadhg »

I make almost all my rolls in front of the screen. Random encounters get rolled behind and maybe a few other.

Not for fudging but because they may give away information that I don't want the PCs to know.

I've only occasionally increase HPs for monsters because the encounter was too easy (my fault) or to adjust for something that makes the game combat flow better.

One thing I do have ready at all times, are NPCs and/or other benefactors that could pop into a bad combat situation. A wondering cleric perhaps or some fey or other good creatures that could keep a disaster from happening.

And since my adventuring party are working for Count Rhuveinus, a certain powerful gnome wizard/thief/fighter could be their guardian angel if necessary.

But, I haven't hardly had to do any of that and my PCs are very good and cautious. Heh, keeping it close but fun.

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Re: DM Dice Rolling Prefrence

Post by Transcona »

Naleax wrote:
I was wondering how some of you CK's or DM's roll dice. My prefrence is to roll all attack and damage rolls in front of the party. I generally roll all rolls that could give players information that they are not privy to behind the screen. An example would be hiding. A player does not know and should not know how well he is hidden when he makes his hide in shadows roll.

I don't like DM Fiat or cheating behind the screen, i'm not very good at it as a DM and as a player i don't like it either. As a player i need to feel that the adventure is risky and that characters could die. If i know the DM is fudging his rolls it feels like the players can get away with anything and the game feels less immersive and less risky.

I have a couple of players that prefer i roll behind the screen and another that likes to see the attack and damage rolls out in the open. Right now i am rolling in front of everyone but to simulate DM fiat i give my players 2 karma points to start the game and 1 karma point at the beginning of every game but they can never have more than 2 at any given time. They can use these karma points to change a successful roll of mine into a failure and or a failed roll of theirs into a success. Thats the basics they can do a few more things with karma to turn the game in their favor.

So if some of you CK's or DM's could chime in with some info about how you make your dice rolls I would be very interested to see what works for you.

Back in the 80's and early 90's I didn't use a screen at all. All roles were open for all to see. I haven't DM'ed (or CK'ed) a game in several years but I am considering pre-rolling before anybody sits down to play. The idea is that I can reference the pre-rolls quickly and not interrupt the narrative to generate die rolls. Also, it is possible by knowing what the outcome will be in advance, that the narrative can be enhanced with greater detail.

I am thinking of using a system of two pre-rolled sets of each of the following: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20, and d100. Each set could have 25 - 50 rolls in it. If I didn't really like the outcome of one chart, I could reserve the right to pick from the other if it enhanced the game play.

After the session is over, I would move any left over rolls to the top, and re-roll the rest for next time.
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Post by Expatriorc »

Everything is behind the screen except for initiative rolls, which I make visible to keep the flow of combat.

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Post by CharlieRock »

dunbruha wrote:
I always roll in the open--I don't use a screen. I do hide rolls that the character wouldn't know about (hide, etc.). If I'm going to fudge something, it's the creature's stats (i.e., remaining hit points), not the rolls.

Ditto, except for the hide check. Since it is a contested roll (usually) we'd both roll in the open simultaneously. Heats up the mood. Trap detection is hidden , since I discovered long ago a group will practically camp outside a door until their thief rolls a nat20 on trap detection.
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Post by Joe »

I think there is more to be said about trusting your relationship with the CK and players rather than having to have "proof" what was rolled and that the person I trust to run a game is not lieing to us all for some reason.

I can see the occasional dun! dun! dun! roll in front of everyone.

But I have seen too many otherwise quality campaigns go out the window due to some crazy dice rolls in an otherwise unimportant encounter. Especially when crits are being used.

Sorry Gandalf...you never got to Durins Bridge in Moria for that big show down with the Balrog because that lowly orc critted you at the first encounter. Because of that the rest of the party was pieced apart and the balrog that the DM spent months painting did not even need to leave his lair. oh well...such is your luck tonight. You know, dice integrity and all that!
For me, I am into gaming for a cooperative storytelling, not to "Get the Players" or to be someones target when a GM feels a need to compensate by making a game something miserable to endure. I have found those type of games don't last long. Neither does a game when it allowed some wild dice rolls to destroy the plot.

In such a game, I would tend to min max, and just plan for the immediate bonuses, rather than plot any long term character goals.

So I would suggest a few rolls for the effect...but I trust a CK/GM to run a game, not allow the dice to run a game. For me, CK fiat, is not the freedom to cheat to screw the players, but the freedom to run a fun game. I mean it's all make believe anyway. Make believe something fun that builds a story, not something deadly that encourages min/maxing and frustrated players.

Did they all die heroicially, or did a goblin score a killer crit? If my characters die for something worthwhile I consider it a good game. If I fail a ride check and break my neck...well I consider that just a waste of everyones time.

I've been running for a few years now and have never "fudged" my dice yet besides a few creature stats made on the fly.

The combat dice have always been as rolled. I have been left with dead characters and players losing interest and myself wishing I had, to the players benefit a time or too, not wishing the opposite. I would rather have a group of smiling friends rather than sit alone consoling myself that at least I never fudged a dice roll. So what if no one wants to game with me...I have my integrity. Bah..it's the CK's job to provide an atmosphere of fun.

At the end of a game that should be the question. Not how do I min/max to improve my dice rolls for next time.

I defer to Robin Laws on this one. If the majority seems to have fun then your game is a success and your already a good GM.

Not sure about others, but I play games to have fun and enjoy my time spent.

My question to the dice rolling purests is this?

Why WOULD anyone fudge a dice roll to save a group?

Wouldn't it be easier to have reinforcements reach them in time, or an npc repay a favor at that time?

The player characters are always arriving just at the time to rescue maidens and save villages from ravaging ogres. Why can't the village arrive to save the heroes?

Why can't a group of dwarves arrive at the right time to save the heroes once in a while or scare away the big bad meany? Maybe a freak cave in, or one of the heroes finds a potion of bull strength that was hidden behind a rock. The possibilities are endless that works both for the heroes benefit or demise.
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Post by CKDad »

I generally roll behind the screen and like many will tweak things if need be. When dealing with ability check rolls, I experimented with rolling them myself last session and I didn't like the way it flowed. The players (in my case, a group of 11-year olds) didn't like it much either - they prefer holding their own destinies at least that much!
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