Musing about hit points

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Taranthyll
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Musing about hit points

Post by Taranthyll »

After reading this thread I started musing about the abstract nature of hit points in D&D/C&C. The premise has always been that high hit point totals reflect skill and endurance rather than superhuman resistance to damage. So the fighter with 50 hit points isn't yawning with disinterest while someone is plunging a dagger twelve or more times into his chest, etc., but rather, the damage taken from those attacks really reflects his growing fatigue as he dodges the thrusts until he is finally open for the cut that wounds or kills him.

If this is the case, why are these hit points treated like serious, lethal damage when it comes to healing? It occurs to me that one's starting hit points could be considered their 'body' points, which reflect actual, physical damage taken, with additional hit points, gained at higher levels considered 'fatigue' hit points, which reflect their stamina and skill in a fight. In this case the 'fatigue' hit points should heal very quickly, say at the same rate as subdual damage, and after resting for a couple of hours you should be ready to go again. Only after you have been seriously wounded (i.e. your hit points drop below your 1st level hit point total) should you need medical attention and heal at the normal rate of 1 hp/day.

I'm thinking of testing this idea out with my players - I think it might make things a bit more fun. Currently after every encounter, the cleric blows all of his spells healing everyone, then they have to stop for the day and rest so the cleric can regain his spells. The 'one encounter per day' gets a bit tedious, and this alternate concept might speed play up and keep things moving.

Comments and criticism?

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Post by Treebore »

They kind of do this in 4E. In fact I think I like your version even better. It works pretty good in 4E, and I think your take will work even better for my "gaming sensibilities".
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Post by Combat_Kyle »

I like what they did in the d20 Star Wars games with Vitality Point (work like hp but heal a little faster) which represent dodging attack fatigue, like you talk about. Then they have wound points, which is your CON score, you take damage here you are hurting. I like this system quite a bit.
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Jackal
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Post by Jackal »

I think we pretty much covered the hit point debate here:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

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Taranthyll
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Post by Taranthyll »

Jackal wrote:
I think we pretty much covered the hit point debate here:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Oops.. I guess I should have done a search before starting a new discussion. Sorry.

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Post by Jackal »

No worries. I wasn't trying to be a jerk...just wanted to point out where all the other info was.
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Post by Maliki »

I like the idea, and it makes a lot more sense especially when it comes to healing.
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ThrorII
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Post by ThrorII »

I like that idea alot, also. The idea of 'serious wound hit points' [your max HD +con mod] and your 'experience related damage mitigation' hit points [all hit points after max HD +con mod] seems to fit with the general concept that hit points are BOTH real wounds AND your ability to avoid serious damage.

At least in your way, a hit is always a hit, not just 'fatigue', which helps to explain away the problem that poison weapons and undead touches are ALWAYS hit, and never "fatigued misses".

I will be using your rules in my next game. I also plan on having the base hit points [max HD+con mod] heal at the C&C RAW rate of 1/day, but the hit points in excess of them will heal 1/hour per characer level (ala subdual damage).

On a side note:

I am thinking of also ruling that clerical healing can 1.) bring you from neg hp's to 0, but not above 0 [RAW]; and 2.) can heal 'subdual' [above max HD+con mod] damage, but not your max 1st level hp's.

The idea behind this is that clerics may petition their deity to save you from death [raise neg hp's to 0], or invigorate you with divine prayers by healing "subdual" hit points (those above max 1st level), but cannot do "real" healing of "real" serious wounds.

This keeps every cleric on the block from being Jesus-like, and healing everyone willy-nilly, keeping it a little more 'low magic'.

I know this would make combat a little more dangerous (especially at lower levels), but is that a bad thing? I always thought it a little absurd that a fighter going toe-to-toe with an ogre, getting beat down to -2 hit points and dying, can be touched and healed, then jump up and continue fighting, then get beat down again to -3 hp, fall unconcious and dying agian, be touched and healed again, then jump up and continue on....on...and on....

Any thoughts on this?

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Post by Taranthyll »

I play-tested the new healing system on Sunday night and it worked really well. The players caught on at once, after using Rob Roy as an analogy. In the final fight between Liam Neeson and Tim Roth, Liam is staggering across the floor, dragging his sword and too tired to defend himself; even though he isn't seriously hurt at this point in game terms he's running very low on hit points - the next hit will likely kill him.

Ever since seeing Rob Roy, my wife and I have always used the expression "sword-dragging tired" when we are completely drained both mentally and physically (as in: "not tonight dear, I'm sword-dragging tired) .
ThrorII wrote:
I also plan on having the base hit points [max HD+con mod] heal at the C&C RAW rate of 1/day, but the hit points in excess of them will heal 1/hour per characer level (ala subdual damage).

Yes, I have kept the RAW healing rate for damage below starting HP and had intended to have the post-1st level HP heal at 1 HP/10 minutes. After running it by my players, they suggested that 1 HP/hour would be more realistic and reflect the stiffness and sore muscles after a fight. I argued that Conan never whines about sore muscles - all he needs is a flagon of wine and a willing wench in his bed and he's good to go. So as a compromise we ruled that resting in a dungeon or sub-optimal field conditions will heal 'fatigue' damage at a rate of 1 HP/hour, whereas resting in a safe, comfortable environment with the recuperative benefits of wine, women, and song will heal the damage at a rate of 1 HP/10 minutes just like subdual damage.
ThrorII wrote:
On a side note:

I am thinking of also ruling that clerical healing can 1.) bring you from neg hp's to 0, but not above 0 [RAW]; and 2.) can heal 'subdual' [above max HD+con mod] damage, but not your max 1st level hp's.

This is interesting. It certainly introduces consequences to getting badly hurt, and maybe that's not a bad thing. I like the idea of divine healing spells washing away fatigue and despair and filling the recipient with new energy - it is very evocative. Getting past 1st level would be a real bitch though.

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