Protection from evil/good/etc. clarification needed

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:22 pm

From 3rd P. PHB"

"The spell prevents bodily contact by all summoned or conjured creatures of any alignment: the melee attacks of such creatures fail and the creatures recoil from the protective magic. The protection against contact by summoned or conjured creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against, or tries to force the barrier against, the blocked creature."

(emphasis mine)

With things like undead, what counts as a summoned/conjured creature? A skeleton can be created via Animate Dead, is that a conjuration or summoning? What about a ghost or vampire?

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:30 pm

If it is summoned by a "Summon BIg Ol' Critter", it is summoned. If some mad cultists drew out some profane circle of conjuration and called forth a demon from the Nebulous Pits of Rah! it is conjured.

Animated skeletons are just that...animated.

Ghost and vampires? if they were called forth by a summon creepy Undead thingy sepll, then I'd say sure. otherwise nothey ar enot summoned, conjured or whatever.

ghostSmacker · Post by **ghostSmacker** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:27 pm

I'm with DD on this.

Animate Undead and Create Undead are necromantic spells and effects. Conjuration magic and summoned creatures come from things like Summon Monster, Gate, Bag of Tricks etc.

Two totally different things in my opinion.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:47 pm

Hmm... interesting.

I've not really noticed before and I think this is where I'm curious about previous editions and how they word or treat it.

However, I think I understand the context of it. A medieval magician would summon a 'spirit' to appear before him outside a 'circle of protection' which is essentially a circle inscribed and empowered by various divine names. I'm vastly simplifying things here but, by extension, if we carry this logic into the game and kept it within this context, a circle of protection would not protect against a vampire. It could protect you against an elemental though. You also have to consider that C&C does not use schools as such so anything 'brought forth' could be considered as summoned (if they were pre-existing) or conjured (if they were created).

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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:58 pm

I think the vagueness of stuff like this is a necessity. Absolutes don't always work in an RPG.

This is a prime example of something that should be left to CK adjudication through common sense on a case by case basis.

If the ghost is some haunting boogie man who's been roaming the Castle Slackmoore for centuries, the CK should feel free to adjudicate that it is not summoned or conjured. However, should the recently widowed witch call forth fell magics to have the spirit of her party-slain husband to come forth from the land of the dead and extract his vengeance, then yeah makes sense in this instance.

Case by case.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:52 pm

Basically, it takes being extraplanar or "created" by a spell with the word "summon" or "call" in its name -- gate is the exception there, but pretty much common sense is needed. If you want vampires to be hedged, then they are -- I would not, but that is irrelevant.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:41 pm

IMC it would not work against undead.
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Grey · Post by **Grey** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:39 pm

Have to agree with DD and the above example - case by case (and tha ability to have this sort of C descision is why I like C&C!)
D.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:06 pm

Yeah, if a spell or ability that allows for a creature to be forcefully "summoned" from elsewhere (IE teleported or plane travelled from X to Y) then they are hedged out. If they were created in some other way then they are not blocked.

Gate is more like a doorway, so a spell like that would not count as "summoned or conjured", since the creature is coming of its own free will.
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