wizards & illusionists having access to all their spells

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Geoffrey
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wizards & illusionists having access to all their spells

Post by Geoffrey »

"Each time a character receives a new level of divine spells, the character learns the new spells from that level automatically. For example, a cleric reaching third level is granted knowledge of all spells on the second-level cleric spell list by their deity." (PHB, p. 52)

What about adopting a similar rule for wizards and illusionists, something such as the following?
Each time a character receives a new level of arcane spells, the character learns the new spells from that level automatically. For example, a wizard reaching third level is granted a spell book of all spells on the second-level wizard spell list.

(The idea comes from at least some gamers' understanding of the 1974 D&D rules.)

Granted the above rule would make wizards and illusionists more powerful, but I'm thinking of using it in a campaign world with NO magic items.
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Treebore
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Post by Treebore »

No, but only because the aspect of the wizard/illusionist always searching and researching is such a big aspect of the class for me, plus having access to all spells does make them considerably more over powered then they may already be.

Plus I like how it allows me to decide when I will have to start dealing with Fireballs, polymorphing, teleporting, etc... as the CK.
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serleran
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Post by serleran »

I think it makes it impossible to add new spells to the game, at least without retro-active exegesis. I don't even allow clerics/druids to get all spells-- they get the ones their faith has, and that is all.
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Go0gleplex
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Post by Go0gleplex »

I gotta go with Tree. It's just a bad idea and removes one of the main reasons wizards go adventuring in the first place...

Serl has a good point too...

I don't even allow player wizards/illusionists to have a single freebie spell of the next level. They gotta find 'em or buy 'em.
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Lord Dynel
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Post by Lord Dynel »

No.

The concept, as least how I've always understood it, is that cleric spells are more of a "standard list of prayers" that the cleric may choose from. A first level cleric can pray today to his god to allow him to heal his companion or himself (cure light wounds) and maybe to bless their upcoming combat with the evil orc battle-master (bless). Or whatever. That, to me, is what I think of clerics when memorizing spells - they can pray for a lot of things, but they need to have the wisdom to pray for the right things.

Arcane casters, studying laborously in dusty tomes, forgotten libraries, their own towers, curling up to the newly aquired spellbook when the party camps for the night, is what I think of when I think of wizards/illusionists. They've made their way by practicing the art - it shouldn't just come to them.

And the others have great points, too.
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Aneoth of Ironwood
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Post by Aneoth of Ironwood »

Agree with most above.

No way, makes them too powerful and what reasons would they then have to adventure at all?

Other than the experience points needed to advance to that next tier to gain the next level of spells for free.

Besides, there must be like 40 or so possible first level spells in most RPG systems dealing with magic and spell casters.

And in my games a mage is limited in the total possible spells they can ever learn at each level, much like 2nd Edition Rules.

I allow ONE automatic spell as they gain that Spell casting level.

Though they must buy it or find it during adventuring, they just do not have to roll for learning it...

They MUST roll for any other spells though.

Plus they always start with Read Magic and one other spell they can choose as starting 1st level PCs, plus one more spell per INT point above 12; with 18 INT being the max at first level.

As CK I choose those other spells for them, or roll for them on a table.

Up to 7 spells can be known and in the PCs spell book at first level.

Read Magic is an automatic spell that they do NOT need to study each day and they can cast it as if it was a natural ability.

I never have understood WHY a Mage even at a beginning level could not easily read magic

Its MUCH worse than a Cleric not being able to read his religeous holy book.

I could picture a holy man/priest not being able to read, but a Mage?

PULEEZZZ.....

IMO Reading Magic is a natural SKILL for a Mage... Like turning undead is to a priest...

Sometimes I also allow detect Magic (limited to once per day) as an ability too. Another skill that they MUST concentrate on to use and it takes a few moments to make it work and it also drains them a bit (they need to rest for a short time afterwards, perhaps an hour or less).

At the same time, I also allow Paladins and Clerics to detect Evil as an ability or skill, not a spell.

And why would a mage not be able to detect something that they know so much about? Magic...

Identify is of course a whole other thing though....

"Yes, that glowing sword is indeed magical (DUH... its GLOWING!) what it does I have no clue.

Could be a cursed backstabbing sword, or a holy defender for all I know...

Once I have studied an Identify spell this evening I can let you know tomorrow... well partly anyway.

Those sells are never a complete thing after all, but we can learn a little about it then."

One exception to that house rule for read magic is: Ancient magic or a foreign type of Magic, and magic of a higher level than the PC could normally learn would be different, and the mage would not be able to read it without casting the spell (as an actual spell) unless the mage knew ancient languages (or that foreign language) as a skill and then he would still need to roll for that skill use.

If the spell is a higher level than the Mage could normally learn and it is on a scroll, then they can still read the scroll spell using the Read Magic ability and cast the spell from the scroll (Making the spell burn off).

But if the Mage wanted to transfer that scroll spell into his/her traveling spell book they must roll for success and if that spell is at a higher level than they can cast, then the success is less than 100% depending on INT and how many levels above their current ability.

koralas
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Post by koralas »

Aneoth of Ironwood wrote:
Agree with most above.

No way, makes them too powerful and what reasons would they then have to adventure at all?

Other than the experience points needed to advance to that next tier to gain the next level of spells for free.

Agreed.
Quote:
And in my games a mage is limited in the total possible spells they can ever learn at each level, much like 2nd Edition Rules.

I allow ONE automatic spell as they gain that Spell casting level.

Though they must buy it or find it during adventuring, they just do not have to roll for learning it...

They MUST roll for any other spells though.

Agreed here as well... I like the Int/Spells chart from 1st Ed.
Quote:
Plus they always start with Read Magic ... Read Magic is an automatic spell that they do NOT need to study each day and they can cast it as if it was a natural ability.

I never have understood WHY a Mage even at a beginning level could not easily read magic

Its MUCH worse than a Cleric not being able to read his religeous holy book.

I could picture a holy man/priest not being able to read, but a Mage?

PULEEZZZ.....

One exception to that house rule (read magic) is: Ancient magic or a foreign type of Magic, and magic of a higher level than the PC could normally learn would be different, and the mage would not be able to read it without casting the spell (as an actual spell) unless the mage knew ancient languages (or that foreign language) as a skill and then he would still need to roll for that skill use.

Start with Read Magic in their spell book, definitely. However, the mage should only be able to read their own spell book, or that of their master or if taught at a mage academy, spell books from the library there. Other wizards will have a different "language" for putting down their spells. However, I do like the thought of having Read Magic be somewhat innate, similar to d20 good aligned clerics spontaneously casting healing spells. So you could opt to cast read magic in lieu of another spell that was prepared.

Another point I would argue, that priests are more likely to be literate, than even a wizard. That is, literate in the primary language they speak. Wizards don't need to know how to read a normal book, but would need to read their spell book. Priest's don't have spell books, basically their spells are more or less prayers/rituals. While they can prepare any spell on their spell list, their patron may restrict spells based on it's nature, or even because of the cleric displeasing the deity. Their holy books, on the other hand, will most likely be written in their native tongue.

Arazmus
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Post by Arazmus »

They also get a spell per level they attain as something they've been "working on".
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