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Helm AC? 
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Skobbit
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Post Helm AC?
Helm AC?

Its probably been discussed here before but i still can't seem to find a definitive answer other than "house rule."

Where I get confused is that i THINK C&C intends on players using Helm AC as a called shot armor only. The problem is not defining how that plays out.
On page 41 of the players handbook it states all the Helm AC's and underneath notes that some armor COMES with a helm. Well then that tells me the helm should be part of the armor AC and not ADDITIONAL AC unless C&C is intending it for a called shot purpose. Unfortunately i don't have the CK handbook so i can't look up if called shots are covered.

From research on the forums and other places i seem to see the following brought up on house rules for called shots.

1. Add a negative (CK choosing) to the attack and only use 10+Helm+Dex

2. Incorporate the Helm AC into the characters overall AC and consider it part of their defense thus ridding the attacker of subtracting from the attack and instead increasing their difficulty by a more challenging AC.


I have read a few forums where people tend to recommend option 1. Fine in a house game i guess, but the negative applied to the attack is not equivalent to the defense of the actual AC helm worn. I could only see option 1 being used in a ranged attack due to distance and difficulty of the shot. Option 2 seems far more practical since defense seems to be an "idea" in C&C that the defender is actively defending with his armor. Adding the Helm AC to the full defense allows for them to deflect a blow with shield, body, and Dex. This is of course is circumstantial, but it removes the concept of negatives to the attacker and keeps it simple, however it contradicts the fact that C&C has put Helm AC into the game to begin with. Even more confusing is why put Helm AC into the game AND include a helm with an armor purchase. This leads me to conclude SOMEWHERE there is a rule for a called shot.


I'm new to C&C and i tend to dive deep into the mechanics of the game play out of game so i can focus on role play without distraction in game. If the rules make more sense before i start i spend less time confused and distracting the other players. Any help on this one from a more knowledgeable source would be great.


Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:45 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Helm AC?
I've always used this (from AD&D DMG):

"It is assumed that an appropriate type of head armoring will be added to the suit of armor in order to allow uniform protection of the wearer. If a helmet is not worn, 1 blow in 6 will strike at the AC 10 head, unless the opponent is intelligent, in which case 1 blow in 2 will be aimed at the AC 10 head (d6, 1-3 = head blow)."

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Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:16 am
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Skobbit
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Arduin wrote:
I've always used this (from AD&D DMG):

"It is assumed that an appropriate type of head armoring will be added to the suit of armor in order to allow uniform protection of the wearer. If a helmet is not worn, 1 blow in 6 will strike at the AC 10 head, unless the opponent is intelligent, in which case 1 blow in 2 will be aimed at the AC 10 head (d6, 1-3 = head blow)."


So is this the rule in C&C or is this a house rule?

Also not familiar with this quote, but how does intelligence factor in that they are hit more often? I think i miss-understand what this means.


Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:32 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Helm AC?
It is from AD&D DMG.

As far as Int part goes, it means an intelligent opponent will go for the head on purpose. The way the rule works is, every other to hit roll with an intelligent opponent is vs. AC 10 head. You roll a D6 when attacked by an unintelligent creature. On a 1, the to hit roll is vs. AC 10 head.

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Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:44 am
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: Helm AC?
I actually recommended taking the helms table out of the book, because there was nothing in the combat chapter addressing called shots to the head. I was overruled, but I think that was because the idea was to leave it up to the CK to decide.

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Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:52 am
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Ulthal
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Traveller wrote:
I actually recommended taking the helms table out of the book, because there was nothing in the combat chapter addressing called shots to the head. I was overruled, but I think that was because the idea was to leave it up to the CK to decide.


+1

For simplicity's sake, I just ignore any mention of helms and special head armor class or hit situations. A PC in armor is assumed to be wearing an included helmet, and that's about it.

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Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:37 pm
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Skobbit
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Arduin wrote:
It is from AD&D DMG.

As far as Int part goes, it means an intelligent opponent will go for the head on purpose. The way the rule works is, every other to hit roll with an intelligent opponent is vs. AC 10 head. You roll a D6 when attacked by an unintelligent creature. On a 1, the to hit roll is vs. AC 10 head.


Wow i was reading it that the defensive player was intelligent and confused the heck out of myself. That makes a ton more sense now. I like that except for the fact that you have to make another d6 roll when being attacked and you have to determine the intelligence of the creature for every creature attacking you. (I'd have a few players in my local group that would argue that till dawn.) "The gelatinous cube is going for the eyes ,they always go for the eyes !!" :o


Traveller and Redwulf i like that idea as well. Just remove it for simplicity. Unfortunately i guess short of asking the original designer I'll never know what the real intent was of the AC helm. :(


Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:52 pm
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Ungern
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Post Re: Helm AC?
bishop wrote:
Unfortunately i guess short of asking the original designer I'll never know what the real intent was of the AC helm. :(


Indeed. Your players eyes light up when they see those tasty AC bonuses, and then when you explain that it's nada, it's like you just took their slice of birthday cake away.

I'm sure there's some sort of "called shot" rule or optional combat doodad that would have made sense of it, but slipped through the fence. Nice trick for wizards if you used it though, you'd have a bunch of great helm Magnetos walking around, "My body is AC 12, but my f'ing head is AC 19 sucka."


Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:11 pm
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Skobbit
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Ieuane wrote:
bishop wrote:
Unfortunately i guess short of asking the original designer I'll never know what the real intent was of the AC helm. :(


Indeed. Your players eyes light up when they see those tasty AC bonuses, and then when you explain that it's nada, it's like you just took their slice of birthday cake away.

I'm sure there's some sort of "called shot" rule or optional combat doodad that would have made sense of it, but slipped through the fence. Nice trick for wizards if you used it though, you'd have a bunch of great helm Magnetos walking around, "My body is AC 12, but my f'ing head is AC 19 sucka."


It begs the conclusion of having an AC head-slot that you could have any slot for armor that boosts AC i.e. mmo rpg's.


Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:33 pm
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Battle Stag
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Post Re: Helm AC?
There are called shots rules detailed a bit more in the CKG.

~O

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Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:17 pm
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Skobbit
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Omote wrote:
There are called shots rules detailed a bit more in the CKG.

~O


They do exist !!!

Ok so i don't have the CKG. What is the basics of it.


Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:55 pm
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Maukling
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Gosh, I missed this thread, somehow. :P

A called shot imposes a -8 penalty to the attack, but if it hits then it's an auto crit. The nice thing is, that the example in the CKG mentions adding the helm AC to the normal AC of the defender. So, it's more-or-less official! :D

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Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:05 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Lord Dynel wrote:
The nice thing is, that the example in the CKG mentions adding the helm AC to the normal AC of the defender. So, it's more-or-less official! :D


Adding AC of helm to the AC of the armour it is part of would be nuts. But, I want some of whatever that editor was smoking. :lol:

(edit) I just read the section in the CKG. The helm AC bonus ONLY applies when doing a called shot against the head. It does nothing additional for the overall AC of the person.

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Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:45 am
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Maukling
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Arduin wrote:
Lord Dynel wrote:
The nice thing is, that the example in the CKG mentions adding the helm AC to the normal AC of the defender. So, it's more-or-less official! :D


Adding AC of helm to the AC of the armour it is part of would be nuts. But, I want some of whatever that editor was smoking. :lol:

(edit) I just read the section in the CKG. The helm AC bonus ONLY applies when doing a called shot against the head. It does nothing additional for the overall AC of the person.


It was clear in my head...guess I didn't spell it out enough. :P

But yes, the called shot is an attack at a specific spot (not necessarily the head). If you aim at the head, and the defender is wearing a helm, they can add it to their normal AC.

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Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:24 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Helm AC?
Lord Dynel wrote:

It was clear in my head...guess I didn't spell it out enough. :P


Someday, I hope to have a helm that types into the computer exactly what I'm thinking. My brain outruns my fingers most of the time.

But anyway, we now have a use for the Helm AC list in the PHB!

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Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:43 am
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