5th Edition

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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Captain_K
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5th Edition

Post by Captain_K »

I know I should know this or should be able to find it.. but I LIKE hearing from you all.. so here goes:

What the hell is all this about "The 5th Edition"? Why should I a CnC player even care?
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maximus
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by maximus »

There's a 5th Edition? Of what?

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

Captain_K wrote:I know I should know this or should be able to find it.. but I LIKE hearing from you all.. so here goes:

What the hell is all this about "The 5th Edition"? Why should I a CnC player even care?
You shouldn't, unless you actually play 5th edition.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Go0gleplex
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Go0gleplex »

5th edition of D&D. And nope. I don't care. ;)
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slimykuotoan
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by slimykuotoan »

I find 5E too limiting.

SIEGE makes all thing possible.
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Buttmonkey »

I'll take a more D&D-friendly approach. As noted, 5E is the latest edition of D&D. It adopts some of the stuff that makes C&C great. It has a more or less universal mechanic for handling miscellaneous actions like the SIEGE engine (it reduces everything to attribute checks similarly to C&C). It has a skill system slapped on top that basically gives +2 to any attribute check that falls within the scope of a skill on the character sheet. A PC can attempt stuff even if it's not on the character sheet (they just don't get the +2 skill bonus), but I suspect many players and possibly DMs aren't aware of that. You trade the generic simplicity of the primes system for more specific skills. 5E is very streamlined compared to 3.X and Pathfinder. If you can't get a C&C group together, playing 5E is a reasonable compromise. It's a good game. There are too many character and race options for my taste (tieflings? Dragonborn? Ick.), but I have to think many, many players prefer having all of the options. The artwork is a mixed bag. The halflings are particularly screwed in that regard. Check out the 5E threads under Other Games for a lot more specifics.
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

While I like 5E a HECK of a lot better than 3E or 4E, I still don't like it better than C&C, and I am fortunate enough to have lots of people to play C&C with, as well as other RPG's.

So like I said above, you don't need to worry about 5E unless you actually play it.

Yes, I actually played 5E. For 4, maybe 5 months, weekly.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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maximus
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by maximus »

From what I've heard, it's way better than 4E. That being said, I can't see investing more in another system. C&C fits my preferences, and I still have a footlocker full of 1E (and some 2E) as well.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

From the TLG perspective, and why they are doing 5E products, its a way for them to expand their business and increase revenue. So I hope their endeavors are successful. I do find it wierd that they are producing product I don't want to buy, so aside from that... :lol:
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by RunningLaser »

From a business standpoint, it makes sense. If they have a large backlog of C&C adventures that they can port to 5e, they wouldn't have to pay for new art.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

maximus wrote:From what I've heard, it's way better than 4E. That being said, I can't see investing more in another system. C&C fits my preferences, and I still have a footlocker full of 1E (and some 2E) as well.

To me, thats the "no brainer" about RPG's. If you find one that fits your likes and dislikes best, and have people to play it with, you win!

Its the people who have to play games they don't really like, in order to play at all, that I feel for. They aren't completely losing, but they are settling for second, third, fourth, etc... best, instead of what they consider to be best.

So I know I am very lucky to have so many people to play C&C with, and Eclipse Phase, and Traveller, and Rifts, and....
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Captain_K
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Captain_K »

So all the kick starter stuff and conversion stuff I keep seeing makes some sense, I think its even on Troll pages.... so I was not sure.

Thanks! I plan to add it to my long list of things to ignore!
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

Captain_K wrote:So all the kick starter stuff and conversion stuff I keep seeing makes some sense, I think its even on Troll pages.... so I was not sure.

Thanks! I plan to add it to my long list of things to ignore!
Yep. The Trolls are just expanding into the 5E market. So far with stuff we already have in C&C format. So nothing to pay attention to for those who don't have to or want to play 5E.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Captain_K
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Captain_K »

So they are basically converting existing CnC stuff into 5e and sending it out.. good for them and their "world". Should last a few years, then 6e will be just like CnC with no differences.. if all goes well.

Scary worry just popped into my head, let's hope the Trolls don't sell out.. that would be a dark day. Their work, their world, their call, but yuck I don't like it, gives me the creeps.
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

If small companies like Frog God Games can make product for Pathfinder, Swords and Wizardry AND 5E, the Trolls should be able to handle to make product for 5E and C&C. The only way in which they may "sell out" is if they switch to making 5E their primary focus. That would only happen if they start making more money with it than they make with C&C.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Omote »

I simply don't care about the D&D brand any more.

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slimykuotoan
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by slimykuotoan »

Yeah, same here. I got so jaded from 3.5 and 4th, that I can't even stomach to look at the new d&d artwork.
For crying out loud, do what you can with the attributes the dice have given you. This is what separates the men from the boys... -Kayolan

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Buttmonkey »

slimykuotoan wrote:Yeah, same here. I got so jaded from 3.5 and 4th, that I can't even stomach to look at the new d&d artwork.
You wouldn't be able to stomach looking at some of the new D&D artwork even if you were never exposed to 3.X and 4E. Those halfling illustrations are criminally bad. However, if you can get past the art, WotC really did do a good job with 5E. It's definitely not in the top 3 or 4 games I want to play, but I'd happily play 5E without feeling like I settled for something crappy.
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

Buttmonkey wrote:
slimykuotoan wrote: It's definitely not in the top 3 or 4 games I want to play, but I'd happily play 5E without feeling like I settled for something crappy.
Its not even in my top 10, I actually like a lot of RPG's, but that last part is something I can say about 5E, which didn't hold true for 4E, or once I crashed and burned on it, 3E. So far, I definitely rank 5E above 3E and 4E, and not only that, I consider it worth playing, if I can't play one of the 10 to 20 games I like better.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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T1Hound
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by T1Hound »

I echo many of the prior comments:
1) I'm tired of the 3.0, 3.5, and Pathfinder systems.
2) 5E may be good. I may play, I would recommend it for new players as very popular, but I don't want it and wouldn't DM it. 4E how it was presented to me turned a long time TSR/WOTC customer away.
3) I understand TLG's approach to 5E and if there's a good TLG product I'll recommend it to a 5E friend but I won't be purchasing it myself.

I want a nice closed system with lots of community support. Give me a product every now and then that adds value. I have a great system already to work with give me something of equal value. I don't have a lot of time to learn whole new books and supplements like those produced by other companies. The 3.0 - 3.x and even Pathfinder systems were throwing out so many options players were bringing new books and rules (yes the CK/DM has final authority to determine but easier to say No but rough knowing a player already bought the book).

-T1

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by ArgoForg »

I'm honestly not sure about why the reach for 5E from the Trolls, myself, simply because I honestly believe they already have a better system, themselves. But I guess I can understand that they're not really creating new content, just retrofitting existing works they've already made to fit the 5E mold.

As a straight C&C player who pretty much gave up on 3.5/PF because it wasn't the style of game I liked, and never had an urge to try 4E for the same reason, I have read the PDF on 5E and think it's a step in the right direction, but as someone mentioned before, I just don't yet trust WOTC to do a brand of D&D that appeals to me anymore. Or if they do, it will be short order before they revamp and overrule it.

Again, I've heard it's good, so I would suggest if you can't play C&C, 5E is certainly better than nothing!
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by GameOgre »

I have been away from C&C for a long while now. I ran a 5E game since it's release off and on. I played in a Pathfinder game for about that time as well. The Entire time I missed C&C BADLY.

D&D5E is a MUCH better game than 3.5 or 4E was for our normal role playing fun. Pathfinder is the Crunch King looking to steal all your souls and imprison you in a impregnable fortress of rules for the next 10,000 years!

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Jyrdan Fairblade
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Jyrdan Fairblade »

5e is definitely way better than 4e and 3e. It’s what I run currently. My brother and I talk about getting a C&C group going one day, but it’d have to be with a different set of players. A number of them just have no tolerance for old school play or games where they can't power game.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

Yep. I can definitely agree that they are, so far, doing a much better job with 5E than they did with 3E or 4E. Like I said above, I am actually willing to play, even run, 5E if I can't get people to run/play the 10 to 20 games I like better. I'd definitely strive to be a player rather than the GM, though.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by serleran »

I will look at any game or almost anything, really, if I think it can give me an idea, inspiration, or even a clear thought of "don't do that." So, I have looked. I did not see much to my liking, but I also am not required to use it... if the Trolls want to cash in on what's available, they should. Better to make $1 from 50 people than $50 off one. Mostly because you might retain more of those 50 people the next time.

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by ssfsx17 »

This is the way I see it...

2nd edition - Some playing around with the classic classes, but nothing major. Strongly associated with the Forgotten Realms and certain video games, as well as being the edition that really made Dragonlance, Dark Sun, and Planescape what they are. Some of my favorite spells originated in this edition too, like a spell that makes people dance uncontrollably.

3rd edition - Trying to take concepts from other games, but then making a big power-gaming splatbook mess out of it. The game designers also went on a wild chase for some semblance of realism, but in the process, only made it even more unrealistic. One big reason why I refuse to play 3rd edition is that it solidified the concept of Attacks of Opportunity, which are the exact opposite of what would happen in real life.

Pathfinder - At least it dropped the realism and embraced all of its fantastic elements, but it's just as much a splatbook-party as 3rd edition. People commonly say that it is more fun to create characters - using programs such as PCGen and Hero Lab - than it is to actually play the game.

4th edition - Some people thought, "Video games are getting big. Therefore we should make D&D more like video games." They were quite frankly wrong. As a "young person" myself (relative to D&D grognards), I already get plenty of video game feel from video games, so therefore desire that pen & paper RPGs stick to what makes them more unique and more flexible than computer stuff. The rise of games like FATE and Burning Wheel showed this very clearly.

5th edition - Tried to appeal to too many people at once. But at least WOTC showed that they want to recapture the old-school players.

The Trolls pursuing 5th edition is good if it will result in their families being able to live better, and if it means their kids can go to college. The RPG business is harsh, and the Trolls should be commended for still being in business, still trying to get books into stores, and still getting full-color artwork at competitive prices compared to the likes of WOTC and Fantasy Flight Games. For comparison, Onyx Path Publishing - which is basically the old White Wolf, and the writers of World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness - had to completely drop physical books from stores. Instead, Onyx Path relies entirely on PDF and print-on-demand sales.
C&C/D&D-related writings, Cortex Classic material, and other scraps: https://sites.google.com/site/x17rpgstuff/home

Class-less D&D: https://github.com/ssfsx17/skill20

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by alcyone »

ssfsx17 wrote: Some of my favorite spells originated in this edition too, like a spell that makes people dance uncontrollably.
Otto's Irresistible Dance is in 1e, is that the spell you are talking about?
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Ishvara »

My two cents on 5E:

I’ve been playing it for over a year now (as a player) and DM’d it once. I think it’s quite a decent well-thought out system, and it’s by far my favourite edition since AD&D1. There are things I don’t like about it, and I’m not sure I’d choose to run a campaign using 5E if I had other options, but what puts me off is mostly just my personal tastes. I find it too biased towards high-fantasy and high-magic settings (due mainly to the powers of characters) and has too much of a Forgotten Realms flavour built in (I prefer homebrew settings, its half the fun of DMing). It also has some appeal to the power-gaming types, which is not my style of game at all.

The main reason I’ve ended up playing it, other than curiosity to see what this version was like, is the huge numbers of players seeking 5E games here in the UK. Finding players for anything other than the most well-known mainstream RPGs here is like hunting for unicorns.

I think my system of choice for a future fantasy campaign is still going to be C&C, although its not perfect either, but it works a lot better if you want to capture a more gritty, lower-magic setting and like to house-rule a lot. There seem to me to be problems with the SIEGE engine system, particularly at higher levels, but that’s where the house-ruling comes in.

I also hope the recent material from the Trolls isn’t a sign that they’re going to be focusing on that more than C&C in future...

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Re: 5th Edition

Post by Treebore »

Ishvara wrote: I also hope the recent material from the Trolls isn’t a sign that they’re going to be focusing on that more than C&C in future...
Thats been of concern to me as well. After thinking about it on and off for a week or two, if it becomes a good revenue source for them, they would be fools to not go for it. If it become a better revenue source for them than C&C, they would be fools not to go for it. Even if it means C&C becomes secondary. Which doesn't bother me, really. When I thought about it I was asking myself, "What else can they produce that I need for C&C?" The answer is, nothing. At least for me. The core books are about as good as you can ask for. Their setting is about as good as you can ask for. So from this point on, what can they sell that would make them good money? Adventures? No one makes a living in the industry by just selling adventures. Not with multiple employee's. More Aihrde supplements? Still not a big enough revenue generator.

So only two things can keep bringing them in enough revenue to stay "afloat". The first, and most desirable to all of us, is a big, steady growth of the C&C fan base, to where a fair number of PHB's and M&T's sell every month. They would be fools to count on that to happen, though. So the best thing to do, is to take the product you have already made, and make it appeal to the larger audience of an RPG like 5E.

With the core of C&C being essentially "done", its the best option they have left to assure the company can stick around. So as weak as my personal interest in 5E is, I certainly hope they figure out a way to stay in business at a level of success where they can afford to hire additional employee's, etc... I certainly don't want to risk the Trolls having to scale back and become a one or two man operation that only offers PDF or POD product options.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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slimykuotoan
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Re: 5th Edition

Post by slimykuotoan »

I want more C&C adventures myself.
For crying out loud, do what you can with the attributes the dice have given you. This is what separates the men from the boys... -Kayolan

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