House rules how much do you use? do they change often?

[bestialwarlust]

As the topic states. I know some have their house rules linked in their signatures. But for others do you have a lot of house rules? I try to keep mine to a minimum -- no more than one page if possible,unlike when I ran ad&d back in the day I had more than one pages worth. With OD&D and C&C I can usually keep it to a page. Then if you have a set of house rules do you change them often? or once play tested do you stick with what you have?

[Treebore]

Early on my House Rules changed a lot, because I keep finding things I don't like, need errata, at least in my opinion, etc... Like with some of the C&C spells. you will find the Trolls did not transfer all of the NEEDED info over from the 3E SRD spell list, same with some magic item properties. Then I wanted to use the SIEGE engine to enable my players to replicate feat like actions from 3E, without the lists of thousands of feats, so I worked it out and gave examples for how each class can do it. I also created my own version of the Runemark, because I needed it. I was using Aihrde as my home world, and the Runemark was too integral to the lore of that world to not have such a class, so I made one based off the D20 version.

So how long your House Rules get to be depends on how anal you are, and what you need.

[pawndream]

I don't have many house rules and only add them if I encounter a game mechanic that is slow and cumbersome or is confusing. Fortunately this isn't really the case with C&C, as the rules are pretty straightforward and universal.

[Omote]

I find my house rules were more of clarification on the part of the C&C game, and additions to where C&C is mechanically thin (for many of my players). Over the years and over the campaigns my house rules changed less and less, but I found myself rewriting the rules sections to incorporate these clarifications and additions. Now, I essentially run my own Advanced C&C edition, or 2nd edition if you will. At this point, I should have just rewritten the entire game to my specifications.

If I had to distill down my house rules without the full rewrites, and layout proceadures, the house rule document would essentially be 1-2 pages of new rules, and 1-2 pages of clarifications. After 10+ years, I don't think I need to change anything else at this point.

~O

[Buttmonkey]

My house rules are pretty minimal. I don't actually have them written down for distribution to players. If I did, I'm sure it would all fit on one page. The core of the game is solid and so rules lite that I don't really see a need for many house rules. I probably omit more than I've added. For example, I don't have paladins or knights in my game (and I'd eliminate barbarians if one of my players wouldn't revolt). I also punted encumbrance (I claim to eyeball it, but the truth is I never pay attention to it) and alignment. I got rid of the funky armor types (no Greek ensembles in my game) and reverted to just the armor that was used in 1E. I use group initiative, spell slots from the CKG, hero and luck points from the CKG, max hit points at first level, and a +1 bonus to monk AC compared to the chart in the PHB. I still use the 1E item saving throw table since I like it better than the C&C method. I rule spells cast using items (e.g., scrolls and wands) are cast using the caster level of whoever created the item, so the potency of such items is variable. I streamline equipping PCs at first level, but that's really more a house procedure than a house rule. Tack on a ban on PC vs PC violence and I think that's it. I'm probably forgetting something, but it's no doubt minor.

[Harlock]

I can't recall if all of these were house rules or they are in the PHB. Here are all of mine:

1. A roll of natural 1 on any attack or siege check automatically fails.
18. Attributes are determined by the players (Thank you, Treebore, for making me see the light).
20. A roll of natural 20 on any attack is an automatic hit dealing maximum damage. A siege check resulting in a natural 20 automatically passes.
79. Characters begin play with maximum gold.

[DMMike]

I know what you mean BWL, as back in the day my house rules (esp. for D&D) got pretty big. As I've gotten older, my HRs have gotten smaller.

For C&C, I've got mostly the following:

1. Multiclasses as Classes: The more I've done the Save or Die podcast, the more I've grown to appreciate the elegance of having a single class that incorporates other MC options into them. For example, the "Elf" in CD&D is basically a Fighter/Magic-User. I've done this for all my allowed MC options.

2. Secondary Skills: I've added this in from the 1E DMG with a couple of my own. They're just background though and not a 'real' skills system. Maybe a +1 or so in that field.

3. More C&C Cantrips. My wife Liz loves playing MU's and didn't like the limited number of Cantrips in the PHB. So, I expanded them a bit, but not to the AD&D levels.

I also do the nat-20 = max damage rule. That's about it.

Mike

[Buttmonkey]

Whoops. I forgot to answer the question about frequency of change.

My house rules have been pretty damn stable. I tend to adopt house rules for specific reasons rather than just to tinker for the sake of tinkering. To the extent I've tinkered (e.g., trying out spell slots), I've been fortunate to find I liked the house rules and have stuck with them.

[bestialwarlust]

I know what you mean BWL, as back in the day my house rules (esp. for D&D) got pretty big. As I've gotten older, my HRs have gotten smaller.

For C&C, I've got mostly the following:

1. Multiclasses as Classes: The more I've done the Save or Die podcast, the more I've grown to appreciate the elegance of having a single class that incorporates other MC options into them. For example, the "Elf" in CD&D is basically a Fighter/Magic-User. I've done this for all my allowed MC options.

2. Secondary Skills: I've added this in from the 1E DMG with a couple of my own. They're just background though and not a 'real' skills system. Maybe a +1 or so in that field.

3. More C&C Cantrips. My wife Liz loves playing MU's and didn't like the limited number of Cantrips in the PHB. So, I expanded them a bit, but not to the AD&D levels.

I also do the nat-20 = max damage rule. That's about it.

Mike

I too prefer the single class myself. Though I maybe tempted to use class and a half outlined in the PHB instead of full multi classing and make those class and half into new classes.

For skills I don't really have a set system but the first line in my HR for skills reads Skills define define what your good at not what you can and can’t do.

[Go0gleplex]

I have additional classes, races, spells, and items. Use my own level drain rules, discard EV, disallow a few other things. Generally I don't change stuff much once I decide to use it.

[trechriron]

I have come up with some house rules mostly around the math (setting base);

• Rejiggering AC/BtH/Monster CL, etc. to keep the % chance smoother and numbers lower. My Base starts at 10, and the modifier for non-prime/prime is set by level and recorded on the character sheet for the player to handle. They roll, add modifiers and tell me the results. I take 10 + CL and set the CB, and provide outcomes.
• I also have a slightly different Health/HP system and use something akin to 5e's "long rest" using rolled HD recovery each night. Health works like actual wounds while HP is more akin to skill, endurance, and gumption.
• Armor grants HP and recovers with an HD rating to compensate for lower AC bonuses. It requires nightly fixing/repair to recover the HD (rolled with HD on nightly recovery).
• There is a Max AC by level to keep lower level characters from being invincible with the new math. My justification is that although you may be wearing good armor, you need experience and skill to benefit the most from it. As you increase in level, so does your higher AC rating armor benefit you more. This Max AC also affects AC from magic items. You must attune with the item over time (go up in levels/increase your Max AC) to get the full benefit. This was included to compensate classes that lose BtH progression from my math rejiggering.
• Classes receive bonus damage dice and extra attacks per level to compensate for lower BtH progression from my math rejiggering. This should also help combats maintain equal length in rounds as characters level!
• I combined a couple classes into the same "tier" for BtH/# of Attacks/Bonus dmg by level to make it easier. There are 5 tiers vs. 6 now.
• Initiative will be rolled with a d20 so I can use the Game Mastery initiative tracker. Initiative is set at the beginning of the round and does not change.
• You can move your movement rate in a combat round and perform an action. You can divide the movement up before or after the action.
• Multiple Attacks: A combat round is broken into 3 phases. You divide your number of attacks evenly across the 3 phases with any remainder favoring earlier phases. Take your average Claw/Claw/Bite attack vs. a Fighter with 3 attacks per round. Each combatant takes one attack in each phase. If facing a monster with Claw/Claw/Breath Weapon/Claw/Claw/Bite, the monster would divide them up as makes the most sense tactically for that monster (in this case the Claw/Claw then BW/Claw, then Claw/Bite). The phases rotate through combatants in initiative order, so no one gets all their multiple attacks at one time. If you are brought low before the round ends, you lose the other attacks!
• (forgot to add)Natural 1 using the rules in the CKG. Natural 20 is a critical, however you double the damage dice you roll not automatic max damage.
• CL's for spells are now based on both the level of the caster and the level of the spell using my new math algorithm (it does require a lookup on a table, but for some that's faster than math... ).

My hope is to increase the survival rate at lower levels and encourage less "adventure a day" trepidation from lower level characters. I want combat to be a tad more dynamic (more movement, more adventurous fighting) and I needed to balance out the extra attacks in a way that would be fair. I also hope to make higher level play smoother, and give higher level magic encounters some balance. With damage bonus increasing on attacks, higher level encounters will not SLOG on longer and instead will be decided by strategy, abilities and cunning! That's my hope at least.

Still working on my document, but should have it ready here soon. I will of course share it. (note, I'm new to C&C however I am NOT new to D&D/OGL/d20, so this comes from my 30+ year history with the game....)

[Buttmonkey]

Darn it! Just remembered my other significant house rule. PCs heal 1 hp per level per day of rest rather than just 1 hp per day.

[bestialwarlust]

I have come up with some house rules mostly around the math (setting base);

• Rejiggering AC/BtH/Monster CL, etc. to keep the % chance smoother and numbers lower. My Base starts at 10, and the modifier for non-prime/prime is set by level and recorded on the character sheet for the player to handle. They roll, add modifiers and tell me the results. I take 10 + CL and set the CB, and provide outcomes.
• I also have a slightly different Health/HP system and use something akin to 5e's "long rest" using rolled HD recovery each night. Health works like actual wounds while HP is more akin to skill, endurance, and gumption.
• Armor grants HP and recovers with an HD rating to compensate for lower AC bonuses. It requires nightly fixing/repair to recover the HD (rolled with HD on nightly recovery).
• There is a Max AC by level to keep lower level characters from being invincible with the new math. My justification is that although you may be wearing good armor, you need experience and skill to benefit the most from it. As you increase in level, so does your higher AC rating armor benefit you more. This Max AC also affects AC from magic items. You must attune with the item over time (go up in levels/increase your Max AC) to get the full benefit. This was included to compensate classes that lose BtH progression from my math rejiggering.
• Classes receive bonus damage dice and extra attacks per level to compensate for lower BtH progression from my math rejiggering. This should also help combats maintain equal length in rounds as characters level!
• I combined a couple classes into the same "tier" for BtH/# of Attacks/Bonus dmg by level to make it easier. There are 5 tiers vs. 6 now.
• Initiative will be rolled with a d20 so I can use the Game Mastery initiative tracker. Initiative is set at the beginning of the round and does not change.
• You can move your movement rate in a combat round and perform an action. You can divide the movement up before or after the action.
• Multiple Attacks: A combat round is broken into 3 phases. You divide your number of attacks evenly across the 3 phases with any remainder favoring earlier phases. Take your average Claw/Claw/Bite attack vs. a Fighter with 3 attacks per round. Each combatant takes one attack in each phase. If facing a monster with Claw/Claw/Breath Weapon/Claw/Claw/Bite, the monster would divide them up as makes the most sense tactically for that monster (in this case the Claw/Claw then BW/Claw, then Claw/Bite). The phases rotate through combatants in initiative order, so no one gets all their multiple attacks at one time. If you are brought low before the round ends, you lose the other attacks!
• (forgot to add)Natural 1 using the rules in the CKG. Natural 20 is a critical, however you double the damage dice you roll not automatic max damage.
• CL's for spells are now based on both the level of the caster and the level of the spell using my new math algorithm (it does require a lookup on a table, but for some that's faster than math... ).

My hope is to increase the survival rate at lower levels and encourage less "adventure a day" trepidation from lower level characters. I want combat to be a tad more dynamic (more movement, more adventurous fighting) and I needed to balance out the extra attacks in a way that would be fair. I also hope to make higher level play smoother, and give higher level magic encounters some balance. With damage bonus increasing on attacks, higher level encounters will not SLOG on longer and instead will be decided by strategy, abilities and cunning! That's my hope at least.

Still working on my document, but should have it ready here soon. I will of course share it. (note, I'm new to C&C however I am NOT new to D&D/OGL/d20, so this comes from my 30+ year history with the game....)

Interesting quite a few changes.

[bestialwarlust]

Darn it! Just remembered my other significant house rule. PCs heal 1 hp per level per day of rest rather than just 1 hp per day.

Don't you hate that

That's why I usually write mine out.

[Buttmonkey]

Darn it! Just remembered my other significant house rule. PCs heal 1 hp per level per day of rest rather than just 1 hp per day.

Don't you hate that

That's why I usually write mine out.

I probably should write them all out in one spot at some point. I have no problem remembering the house rules in play, though.

[serleran]

Depends what you mean by house rules, to a degree. I have numerous additional spells, magic items, and monsters I add. Sometimes they carry over across games, and sometimes not.

For the less obvious things, I like to add a tweak every game. I also usually remove something else. For example, I might say "we're going to use 4d6-L; if all roll 6s, get a 19" but also have "no one can be a barbarian, ranger, paladin, bard, or monk." Those things change every game (and some rules may be modified in every session) as I am an inexorable tweaker. Or something.

[Lord Dynel]

My "house rules" are divvied up between options from the PHB/CKG or other rule books (such as various DMGs) and ones that are, mostly, my own creation.

Borrowed from other rulebooks: class-and-a-half rules (PHB), critical hits and fumbles (CKG), surprise (2e DMG), and Secondary Skills (1e DMG).

I have rules for the rate of fire for bows and crossbows that are based on the CKG rules, but vary a bit.

Some of my rules are my own; not that I invented them, but they are not from another book (or at least to my knowledge). I use wisdom as primes for Rangers and natural healing is 1d3 per night of rest. Also, for stat generation, players roll 3d6, 12 times and take the best six, arranging as desired.

Another thing I do is change out the healing/curing spells for illusionists. I am against that, so I don't use it. Instead, I have created alternate spells:
• First Aid (0-level) > Silent Portal (0-level, negates sound from opening door or window)
• Cure Light Wounds (2nd-level) > Bravado (aka False Life, 2nd-level, grants target 1d10 temporary hp, for 1 minute)
• Remove Blindness/Deafness (2nd-level) > Whispering Wind (2nd-level, send a message up to 1 mi./level, to a designated spot)
• Cure Serious Wounds (4th-level) > Braggadocio (4th-level, grants target 3d10 temporary hp for 1 minute)
• Neutralize Poison (5th-level) > Tempus Fugit (5th-level, time in affected area passes faster than normal for spell's duration)
• Cure Critical Wounds (6th-level) > Grandiloquence (6th-level, grants 5d10 temporary hp for 1 minute)
• Restoration (7th-level) > Death Fog (7th-level, as solid fog, but does damage to those in spell effect)
• Heal (9th-level) > Mass Blindness (9th-level, afflicts blindness in a 20' diameter circle - under 4 HD are blinded, over 4 HD get saves)
(blindness/deafness remains a 2nd level spell, but its reverse has been removed)

Lastly, I am considering major changes to the weapon specialization rules for fighters, and have it written up, but I haven't playtested it yet, so it's not in full use yet.

[Captain_K]

Mine are summarized on the Crusades page under 9th Hour Social Diversion Society.

[jdizzy001]

I keep house rules to a minimum. All the "house rules" I use are recommended alterations from either the phb or ckg so I don't think they actually count as house rules.

[zombiehands]

I use a few house rules and alter a few classes.
House Rules
1) Class Base Weapon Damage
Class HD d12/d10 (Warriors) Small weapons Do D6, Medium weapons do d8 (d10 in two hands), large weapons do d12
HD d8 (Clerics) Small Weapons do D4, Medium Weapons do D6 (or D8 two handed), Large Weapons do d10
HD d6 (Rogues and Assassins) Small Weapons do D6 Medium Weapons do d6 or d8 in two hands, large weapons d8
HD d4 (Wizards) all weapons do d4 or d6 in two hands
Other than this no class based weapon restrictions.
2) All target Numbers are 15 + Level of Difficulty. If prime roll twice take better.
3) Characters can Move, Attack, or Cast on their turn. If not moving they can only adjust position by 5 feet. Mounted Warrior types can use their 5 foot step to urge their mount to move with a CHR check, non-warriors cannot. Knight don't roll.
4) Actions are declared by card (Melee, Missile, Move, Magic) and resolved in that order. Move includes Charge. Magic includes cast and use item (even non magic ones). So if you are not in melee at the beginning of the round Missile go first, Charges next, than spells). If two or more people throw the same card then they act simultaneously, if you want to act before someone you can choose to roll initiative but if you loose you also loose your actions.
5) No Paladins, No Monks
6) Knight get +2 damage with Sword, Lance, and Blunt Weapons. Fighters get +2 damage with all weapons. Rangers get +2 damage with Ranged Weapons. Fighters loose weapon specialization. Ranger loose combat marauder.
7) Clerics/Druid only memorize spells in a church/groves, they retain spells after casting but are still limited to spells per day per PHB chart. You can cast any spell memorized up to your allotted per day.
8) Magic user/Illusionist Can only memorize spells in safety (town) but otherwise acts clerics above
9) All characters heal LV hp per day resting in wilderness. Barbarians and Rangers heal LVx2 in wilderness.
10) All characters are fully healed with one night in sleep, good meal, and strong drink or prayer in safety, unless they are below zero HP. Then they heal 1 HP per week. Magic healing helps but Cure Light is only 1 pt. ect.
11) Silver standard
12) Encumbrance: A character can carry 4 encumbrance points + CON mod. Weapon Set, Large Shield, Metal Armor, Sack, Backpack each count as 1 encumbrance. 1 pt move 40, 2+ CON point move 30, 3+ CON point move 20, 4+ CON points move 10. Weapon set are a total of 6 points 1 for small, 2 for medium, 4 for larger
13) You can take cover behind a large shield (+4 AC) but may only move (no charge) or 1/2 cover behind small shield AC (+2)

[Annok]

Firstly, great discussion.
My campaign is early Neolithic with metallurgy (non-medieval) so requires quite a few 'aesthetic' changes. I don't really see these as 'house rules' more a reflection of technology and social constructs in such a context (no 'knights' , 'illusionists' etc).
In terms of true house rules I have limited psionics - what I call 'metabolics' from 'book of the mind.' No psionic combat or exclusive nonsense.
I also have some additional rates of attacks (commencing at 3/2) with specific levels for rogues and hunters (assassins) and as a result of weapon specialisation for warriors (both fighters and at higher levels rangers/barbarians). This can be characterised as fighter/warrior/rogue weapon specialisation.
I have a 'shaman' spell list that includes a diverse range of spells (illusion, divination etc.) very different to the 'druid' list.
I have a list of 'skills' that are basic and none of which are class based abilities - these can be assigned points per level to modify the SEIGE check)
I use spell level rather than caster level to determine saving throws - I find this works very well.
I have a couple of different symbolist (rune) classes and have additional runes from Vikings sourcebook (2E).
Any of the classic 'thief' skills are assigned points by the PC rather than an arbitrary +1 per level (these are +10 at first level and +6 each level for rogues and hunters (seven abilities each) and +6 at first level and + 3 for rangers, bards and adaptors at each level (four abilities each). This is to model 2E variability around these skills - thus no two rogues are alike.

My biggest 'house rule' is that I use what I call the SEIGE20 system (CKG) wherein a non-Prime = +2 and a Prime = +8 and each character gets 1 demi-prime (+5 or 15). This is just a convenience wherein a CL of 4 = 24. Once a PC has decided what is a 'prime' why have to recalculate in every encounter for each character?

I am big into speed of play. I am a huge advocate of 'theatre of the mind' and simply use paper and different coloured pens for each character when required to detail an encounter.

Flow and group flow is the key to PLAY (see Victor Turner). Music (ambient atmospheric) and just 'winging it' rather than getting bogged down in mechanics - who gives a shit anyway.
Have fun, play on.

[Rigon]

You can see my house rules in my description and you can go through the discussion on that thread to see my train of thought.

R-