Holding an Action

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Snoring Rock
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Holding an Action

Post by Snoring Rock »

Ok I just started playing C&C again last night. How does holding an action work? I cannot find it.

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mmbutter
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by mmbutter »

When your turn comes up in the initiative order, you tell the CK you're going to wait. Then, later in the round, you tell the CK when you want to take your action.

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Kayolan
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Kayolan »

mmbutter wrote:When your turn comes up in the initiative order, you tell the CK you're going to wait. Then, later in the round, you tell the CK when you want to take your action.
That's how I do it as well.

This is how disrupting spell casting is handled in my games as I'm a CK who doesn't require that the spell is announced before initiative is rolled or that a caster who gets hit can't cast for that round if it happens before their initiative turn.

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Snoring Rock
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Snoring Rock »

I do it the same way, but I do not see the rules end where in the PHB. Is it not mentioned in C&C?

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mmbutter
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by mmbutter »

There's a reason why C&C is a "rules light" system. They don't attempt to make rules for every situation; a lot is left to common sense and CK discretion.

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Re: Holding an Action

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Snoring Rock wrote:I do it the same way, but I do not see the rules end where in the PHB. Is it not mentioned in C&C?
It's not mentioned in C&C.
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T1Hound
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by T1Hound »

You can use it from I believe 2E Combat & Tactics.

It was similar to:
On your initiative, declare your action and a trigger. I.e., wait for the wizard to start casting, then attack.

You are focused on that action until the next initiative for your character.

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Kayolan
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Kayolan »

It may not be explicitly stated in the rules but it makes sense that if you win the initiative, you don't have to act before your opponent, you could decide to let them try something first, which can be just as tactically advantageous if you're ready for them when they do try a move.

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Re: Holding an Action

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Kayolan wrote:It may not be explicitly stated in the rules but it makes sense that if you win the initiative, you don't have to act before your opponent, you could decide to let them try something first, which can be just as tactically advantageous if you're ready for them when they do try a move.
This exactly.

We ran it much like Hound said. On your initiative, you decide to hold until the enemy acted or afterwards. We ran simultaneous initiative segments so if both go on seg 5 you'd have a chance to disrupt or counter what the baddy was doing. It was all tactical motivated. Or waiting for that flying vampire to swoop in close enough to strike at... :twisted:
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Snoring Rock
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Snoring Rock »

I do not remember ever holding an action in 1e. I was young too. 5e rules are much more explicit in stating the trigger and what the held action must be, than the 3.5 rules. I have taken a two year break from C&C and was just trying to remember if there were any guidelines. I guess this answers my question.

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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Buttmonkey »

When I'm CKing, I don't make players declare actions before rolling initiative. I'll let a player hold an action, but I won't let them wait until something starts to happen and then interrupt it. They go when they go. Hesitating in initiative is just as dangerous as hesitating in battle.

For spell disruption, I rule that a PC or monster can't cast a spell if it has already been struck that round. I used to make players declare their intention to cast a spell at the beginning of the round so that spell disruption would have teeth (e.g., losing the spell because it misfires). I ultimately found it to not be worth the hassle. Any spell-casting PC or monster is allowed to do something other than cast a spell if they are wounded before their turn to act each round. Simple tends to trump realism for me.
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Rhuvein »

I've always allowed hold action and all the games I've played in, it's used. To a degree, it seems logical to allow ~ on the hand if a CK wished to be more strict in his/her running of C&C, I can see that as well.

Anyway, I was thinking about this today and BM's post got me going a bit more.

So, do any CK's out there not used hold action and if so, why?

Also, what about monsters - do you CKs allow monsters to hold action or perhaps only the smarter ones?

Thanks.

:)
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Buttmonkey »

Just to be clear, I do let a player hold action. But if something happens before they declare their action, that thing happens before the player's PC acts. I'd probably allow a PC to make a contingent action. For example:

Jerkface (player): I'm staring down that wizard. If he opens his mouth or gestures with some of that magic nonsense, I shoot him in the mouth with my crossbow.

Derek the Great (CK): Sounds good.

In that scenario, I'd let the PC fire a shot once the monster acts and starts to cast a spell. That doesn't involve hesitation to commit to an action, it's just waiting until a specific trigger occurs.
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Re: Holding an Action

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Buttmonkey wrote:Just to be clear, I do let a player hold action. But if something happens before they declare their action, that thing happens before the player's PC acts. I'd probably allow a PC to make a contingent action. For example:

Jerkface (player): I'm staring down that wizard. If he opens his mouth or gestures with some of that magic nonsense, I shoot him in the mouth with my crossbow.

Derek the Great (CK): Sounds good.

In that scenario, I'd let the PC fire a shot once the monster acts and starts to cast a spell. That doesn't involve hesitation to commit to an action, it's just waiting until a specific trigger occurs.
Back in the day, that is how I did it too. As my girls are starting to learn to play, they haven't gotten that 'advanced' in their combats. However, they have come up with some good plans and ambushes, with very little coaching or idea help from me, soo I'm sure soon enough one of them will think of this too.

Rhuvein wrote: ...

Also, what about monsters - do you CKs allow monsters to hold action or perhaps only the smarter ones?

Thanks.

:)
Here you go on my earth shattering answer ... are you ready.... it depends :mrgreen:

Well it did back in the day any way.

It would depend on the monster / NPC. A common goblin, orc or lowly brigand, probably not. Orcs Hobgoblins with a competent 'war leader' possibly (especially in an ambush set up), but eventually, the more base battle lust would take over and the well laid out ambush and good tactics would fall apart . High Int monsters - vampires, uniue devils NPCs with fair experience & intelligence etc - or those more commonly 'devious' monsters - kobald - were apt to hold actions, disrupt others actions, do hit and run and cause much mischief .
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by alcyone »

Rhuvein wrote:I've always allowed hold action and all the games I've played in, it's used. To a degree, it seems logical to allow ~ on the hand if a CK wished to be more strict in his/her running of C&C, I can see that as well.

Anyway, I was thinking about this today and BM's post got me going a bit more.

So, do any CK's out there not used hold action and if so, why?

Also, what about monsters - do you CKs allow monsters to hold action or perhaps only the smarter ones?

Thanks.

:)
I allow held actions, and I normally don't think to give them to monsters or NPCs, but I should.

In 3.5e there is a distinction between a delayed and readied action, and these work fine in C&C.
Delayed:
You just go on a later initiative count which you can state up front or between other turns. It's just like you rolled lower. You can't interrupt anyone with a delayed action, and it's your whole action, like your regular turn.
Readied: You state a trigger, and in immediate reaction to it, you act. It can just be part of your action, e.g. "I move half my distance and will shoot when the dragon passes that tree." It interrupts whatever the dragon was doing or planning. You'd use this to set a spear or interrupt a caster. You announce it on your normal initiative count. If the trigger happens after the current round, you get the initiative where it happens, even if it's higher (but you still only get one turn).
They both impact your new initiative in 3.5e, but C&C btb has per round init, so that's something to think about

In some versions of D&D these get complicated by interrupt and immediate actions. A harmless and common example is feather fall, which can typically be cast any time as a contingency to falling, even when it's not your turn*, but there are much crazier ones in some 3.5e books and 4e. Those drive me nuts and can get out of hand. But the above two are pretty safe.

*(Though it's just a regular CT 1 spell in the C&C PHB, at least the latest printing. That kind of sucks, though the flavor text "fast enough to save the caster in case of an unexpected fall of any notable height" probably means the same as it being "immediate")
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Kayolan
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Re: Holding an Action

Post by Kayolan »

I like the idea of distinguishing delaying your turn and having a trigger, I think that makes more sense.

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Re: Holding an Action

Post by serleran »

We use declaration. If you hold your action, you do not roll initiative as your action is dependent on what occurs - you may not get a turn if the condition does not present.

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