Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

C&C discussion. Fantasy roleplaying.
New products, general questions, the rules, laws, and the chaos.
Post Reply
User avatar
Buttmonkey
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2090
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Buttmonkey »

The Trolls have launched another kickstarter that doesn't appear to have been announced here yet for some reason. This one is special (from my perspective) because they are releasing the Player's Handbook, Monsters & Treasure, Castle Keeper's Guide, Codex of Aihrde, Player's Guide to Aihrde, Adventurer's Backpack, and Monsters & Treasure of Aihrde in DIGEST size!!! I told the Trolls I wouldn't be buying more copies of the PHB unless it came back in digest size and the Trolls came through big time.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

User avatar
Buttmonkey
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2090
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Buttmonkey »

Did I mention the interiors will be in completely glorious black and white?! I loathe the colorized versions of the original B&W illustrations, so this is wonderful news.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

User avatar
spudeus
Ungern
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:01 pm

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by spudeus »

To each their own, I suppose.

I've backed the last couple Troll kickstarters, but am having trouble biting the bullet on this one. $100 for a box of flimsy little digests? I don't quite get the appeal . . .

alcyone
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2732
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
Location: The Court of the Crimson King

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by alcyone »

It's kind of a neat idea. I am not sure my eyes could take it, and I have multiples of many of the books by now.
If my eyes were better and I didn't own anything yet I'd surely consider it. I do like the black and white; if it's crisp that's a selling point.

What I'd really like is a hardcover case-bound like a regular classic book, maybe cloth cover, US trade size, with alternate art inside. Mostly black and white with a few important color plates.
I don't want any more books that I already own with the Peter Bradley art... it's perfectly good art, but the reason to buy a new book for me would be to have some other art to look at and inspire.
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com

User avatar
Buttmonkey
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2090
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Buttmonkey »

spudeus wrote:To each their own, I suppose.

I've backed the last couple Troll kickstarters, but am having biting the bullet on this one. $100 for a box of flimsy little digests? I don't quite get the appeal . . .
"Flimsy" isn't a fair characterization. I've got the last PHB and M&T they did in digest format (I believe 6th printing for the PHB and 2nd for M&T, although I'm not sure about the printing numbers). They are perfect bound and very sturdy. I take them on the road with me whenever I play outside my home. Why lug around pounds of large books when I can take small, light ones? They have held up very well. Perfect binding in digest size is much sturdier than in 8-1/2x11.

The appeal is the smaller size and weight. I rarely crack open my full-sized PHBs or M&T since getting the digest versions. The print is great, albeit very small. The Trolls are including a plastic magnifying strip about the size of a credit card to go with the digest books in the kickstarter. I don't think that is necessary, but I'm sure for some readers the print will be too small. I'm 46 with bifocals and have no problems reading the digest sized books. Anyway, I find the digest size versions to be much handier and more portable. The artwork is also better in black and white (IMO).

Of course, digest size isn't for everyone, but for me there's no way I'm going back to full size books if I can avoid it.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

User avatar
Buttmonkey
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2090
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Buttmonkey »

Aergraith wrote:if it's crisp that's a selling point.
It is.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

User avatar
Tadhg
Cleric of Zagyg
Posts: 10878
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Time

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Tadhg »

I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Lord Tadhg - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Ardmore

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

User avatar
mgtremaine
Ulthal
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 am
Location: San Diego, Ca
Contact:

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by mgtremaine »

Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Have you seen the cost of Dr. Pepper lately. :)

alcyone
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2732
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
Location: The Court of the Crimson King

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by alcyone »

Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Well, for $100, you are getting digest versions of seven of the normal-sized books; that isn't a bad deal. I know less about their OD&D-like books.
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com

User avatar
Tadhg
Cleric of Zagyg
Posts: 10878
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Time

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Tadhg »

mgtremaine wrote:
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Have you seen the cost of Dr. Pepper lately. :)
No, is it high?

I buy Dr. Bob from Peapod and it's half the price! ;)
Lord Tadhg - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Ardmore

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

User avatar
Tadhg
Cleric of Zagyg
Posts: 10878
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Time

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Tadhg »

Aergraith wrote:
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Well, for $100, you are getting digest versions of seven of the normal-sized books; that isn't a bad deal. I know less about their OD&D-like books.
Hmm, are the digest books a different size than the boxed set books?
Lord Tadhg - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Ardmore

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

User avatar
finarvyn
Global Moderator
Posts: 998
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Chicago suburbs
Contact:

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by finarvyn »

Rhuvein wrote:
mgtremaine wrote:
Rhuvein wrote:I like digest, but the price seems high. Is it the cost of printing in this form that drives that price?
Have you seen the cost of Dr. Pepper lately. :)
No, is it high?

I buy Dr. Bob from Peapod and it's half the price! ;)
Not to pick a nit, Rhu, but if you don't know the price of Dr Pepper, then how do you know that Dr Bob is half the price? ;)
Marv / Finarvyn
Lord Marshall, Earl of Stone Creek, C&C Society
Just discovered Amazing Adventures and loving it!
MA1E WardenMaster - Killing Characters since 1976, MA4E Playtester in 2006.
C&C Playtester in 2003, OD&D player since 1975

User avatar
mmbutter
Red Cap
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by mmbutter »

Rhuvein wrote:Hmm, are the digest books a different size than the boxed set books?
Yes, they are digest-sized.

User avatar
Traveller
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2032
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Traveller »

The thing I noticed in the Kickstarter isn't the digest books. They are reprinting the White Box set - which the Kickstarter refers to as C&C Classic - and then offering a limited edition Advanced C&C Classic box including the books from the Adventurer's Backpack.

I'd like to see those booklets get the changes and improvements in the rules that have come about from the last fifteen years, but from the description on Kickstarter this is going to be a straight up reprint. That means that besides the fact no errata will be included in the booklets, missing information in spells and monsters to actually make them playable out of the box won't be included either.

capmarvel
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:27 pm

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by capmarvel »

I'd say chances of this being out March 2019 are pegged at zero percent (given that the Adventures Backpack was like 15 months late).

(I print all my C&C books B&W...purchase the PDF, print at Lulu for about $5 each - for some reason my "color blindness" has trouble reading the text as is on the colored background but it looks great B&W).

User avatar
mgtremaine
Ulthal
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 am
Location: San Diego, Ca
Contact:

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by mgtremaine »

I've been trying to not look at Kickstarter.... damnit rolled a 1.. Need to decide between the Basic and Advanced now. [Shakes fist at Traveller]

-Mike

User avatar
Traveller
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2032
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Traveller »

mgtremaine wrote:I've been trying to not look at Kickstarter.... damnit rolled a 1.. Need to decide between the Basic and Advanced now. [Shakes fist at Traveller]

-Mike
:twisted:

I'd go for the Advanced version. You get everything in the white box plus all the Adventurer's Backpack material. Meanwhile, I've started over on my revision of the white box rules, after losing the original to a corrupted zip file.

User avatar
mgtremaine
Ulthal
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 am
Location: San Diego, Ca
Contact:

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by mgtremaine »

Traveller wrote:
mgtremaine wrote:I've been trying to not look at Kickstarter.... damnit rolled a 1.. Need to decide between the Basic and Advanced now. [Shakes fist at Traveller]

-Mike
:twisted:

I'd go for the Advanced version. You get everything in the white box plus all the Adventurer's Backpack material. Meanwhile, I've started over on my revision of the white box rules, after losing the original to a corrupted zip file.
That was the choice I made.. I have the original white box release so it made sense to go for the Advanced.

-Mike

PS - Have you tried any tools like WinRAR or Zip2Fix [ http://leelusoft.altervista.org/zip2fix.html ] both go which claim to recover corrupt zips

User avatar
Traveller
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2032
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Traveller »

I use WinRAR, but I didn't have a recovery record in my RAR files at the time. That has since been corrected.

It's not a huge deal as I still have PDFs of the White Box to work from. It just means I get to do things over again.

User avatar
dachda
Lore Drake
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:00 am
Location: Topsham, Maine

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by dachda »

spudeus wrote:To each their own, I suppose.

I've backed the last couple Troll kickstarters, but am having trouble biting the bullet on this one. $100 for a box of flimsy little digests? I don't quite get the appeal . . .

Digest is the perfect size when sitting on the can. Just too hard with the full-size hardbacks.

User avatar
Omote
Battle Stag
Posts: 11560
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Contact:

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Omote »

Clarification: From what i understand the C&C Classic Basic White Box Set included with this KS is not a reprint of the earlier C&C White Box; it is it's own thing. That's kinda why I am excited about this KS. I love the original C&C White Box, but it needs a new coat of paint, a bit of expansion (10th level), and a whole new layout with some updated art. That is what we are getting with this new C&C Classic Basic White Box Set.

~O
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<

User avatar
spudeus
Ungern
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:01 pm

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by spudeus »

dachda wrote:Digest is the perfect size when sitting on the can. Just too hard with the full-size hardbacks.
Okay, if they throw in some bonus T.P. with an embossed C&C logo, I'm in.

User avatar
mgtremaine
Ulthal
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 am
Location: San Diego, Ca
Contact:

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by mgtremaine »

Omote wrote:Clarification: From what i understand the C&C Classic Basic White Box Set included with this KS is not a reprint of the earlier C&C White Box; it is it's own thing. That's kinda why I am excited about this KS. I love the original C&C White Box, but it needs a new coat of paint, a bit of expansion (10th level), and a whole new layout with some updated art. That is what we are getting with this new C&C Classic Basic White Box Set.

~O

Tighter fold on the books also. Because they are pretty thick the paper needed to be scored pretty hard to lay more flat. But that's my nit on the set I have. :)

-Mike

User avatar
Obadiah
Mist Elf
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:09 pm

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Obadiah »

Two questions:

One for the Kickstarter vets. I have never used it. I am worried about what the cost to post might become on the digests to Australia. How do I find out what it is going to cost for postage?

Second one - I like the idea of digest sized, but am a little worried about print size and the fact they felt the need to offer the magnifying lens. I wear reading glasses for the full sized book I have, so worried about how small the digest version print might be. Does anyone have a view on this? To simulate this should I try to print a PDF I currently own on A5 paper for example?
I used to have a signature, but now I don't...

User avatar
Buttmonkey
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2090
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Buttmonkey »

Obadiah wrote:Two questions:

One for the Kickstarter vets. I have never used it. I am worried about what the cost to post might become on the digests to Australia. How do I find out what it is going to cost for postage?

Second one - I like the idea of digest sized, but am a little worried about print size and the fact they felt the need to offer the magnifying lens. I wear reading glasses for the full sized book I have, so worried about how small the digest version print might be. Does anyone have a view on this? To simulate this should I try to print a PDF I currently own on A5 paper for example?
No idea on your shipping question.

As to font size, I think you're on the right track with printing a test sample. Historically (I'll come back to this), the digest books were exact replicas on the full size books, only in miniature. If you print a test page at the shrunk down size, you should get a pretty good idea what you'd be getting. I don't have my digest sized books handy, but I believe the margins are something like 1/4 or 3/8 of an inch (maybe smaller).

Back to the "historical" point. Steve said yesterday the Trolls are considering using a larger font with the digest size books by eliminating some of the art. That should keep the page count the same, but I have no idea if it will affect the exact pagination (meaning, text may appear on a different page number than the full sized book from time to time although the overall page count may stay the same). I believe they also mentioned possibly making the books slightly larger than the digest sized books they have made in the past. Backers were given a link to a poll to vote on whether we want exact replicas of the books in digest size or go with the larger font and less art. If the backers select option 2, the font size will obviously be bigger and less of a challenge for folks with vision issues. Personally, I am near-sighted and have no problem reading the digest size font with bifocals, but that doesn't mean everyone will have the same experience.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

User avatar
Gundoggy
Ungern
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:00 am

Re: Kickstarter - Digest, etc.

Post by Gundoggy »

I'm getting to the age where even the text in the full size books is hard to read.
No digest for me.

Post Reply