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Dark Sun: Anyone Used C&C Attributes to Smooth Play Out? 
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Hlobane Orc

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:00 am
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Post Dark Sun: Anyone Used C&C Attributes to Smooth Play Out?
Okay. First of all, for those unfamiliar, I have been a Castle & Crusades geek since the Player's Handbook second printing, and have kept up (mostly) with the current and ongoing publications, and have contributed to Kickstarters. I will state that, since '00, I've had less and less contact with and interest in Wizards of the Coast and their production lines, and that I've got absolute zero interest in 4th Edition, and know virtually nothing about 5th Edition, aside from some points of comparison with C&C that've been brought up on RPG.net.

That stated, one thing I'd like to get some popular feedback on: For me, Second Edition's crowning achievement was Dark Sun. The fact that the game engine was flexible and adaptable enough to sustain such a variant concept pointed out, for me, that the AD&D system was something that needed not much more than house rules in order to work with a host of fantasy-based world concepts.

The difficulty with Dark Sun, for me, lay in the nature and progression of the Attributes; once an individual, PC or NPC, gets past 18, especially with Strength, things start moving from a straight linear to an exponential progression. While this is all well and good for saintly, demi-god and godlike figures, who are totally out of the PCs' hands (at least in general concepts), it rendered the stats for Dark Sun characters getting a bit into the crazy range.

I honestly believe that C&C's standard Attribute progression pretty much deflates this problem. With half-giants getting a maximum of 24 on Strength, this alters things from absolute killer +6 to-hit, +12 damage to a straight +6 to-hit/damage (twice the numerical bonus of 18, but still not enough, I would think, to turn the most powerful half-giant into a player-controlled monster), if the bonus progression is maintained. With the other stats similarly smoothed out, this results, I would think, in much more balanced gaming and something that the DM doesn't need to be dragging the big guns out for with every situation in order to prevent the players from doing the Big Yawn, stretching the arms, leaning back and calling out "BOOOR-ING!"

So: Has anyone here played Dark Sun with C&C Attribute progression? If so, how did it turn out? I've never had the opportunity to do more than one-shots with any Dark Sun setting, and would love to know if anyone here has tried it and met with success.

Otherwise, enjoying the heck out of the SIEGE system, love the panoply of character races and classes that C&C offers without getting character concepts morphed into stat blocks, and hoping to see more from the Troll Lords gang as 2019 progresses. :)


Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:51 pm
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Clang lives!
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Post Re: Dark Sun: Anyone Used C&C Attributes to Smooth Play Out?
I moved your post to this forum. Only a handful of people can reply to posts in the Keeper's Forum. I love Dark Sun and did a complete adaptation a while ago (including psionics). However, like you, I've only ran a couple of one shots.

You can get my adaptations in the Whatnots section of my sig.

R-

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Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:14 pm
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Hlobane Orc

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:00 am
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Post Re: Dark Sun: Anyone Used C&C Attributes to Smooth Play Out?
Rigon, thank you very much for noting the post, and, probably, for relocating it - I felt that shepherd's crook around my neck dragging me off to parts unknown, but figured it was a second-level wizard's spell or something more pedestrian like that. Also appreciate your directing me to your WhatNot link; I looked over your very well thought-out and extensive material on Dark Sun and agreed with it pretty much entirely - just unfortunate that the setting itself seems to have become a sort of whatever-happened-to item rather than gaining the depth of attention it deserved; I've got pretty much a full shelf of books/boxes devoted to the setting - including several Dragon issues - and, while I very much enjoy looking them over, it's just damned unfortunate that they haven't been put to greater use. While, as noted previously, I have virtually no specific knowledge of D&D 4th Edition, I am aware that they undertook a pretty much full conversion and publication of Dark Sun, leaving world events' progression off after Kalak's death and Tyr's liberation. I thought this - irrespective of whatever else WotC might have done - was a damned good idea, and allowed player characters to actually make a contribution to their own gaming world's evolution; a similar (though totally unrelated) point is BattleTech/MechWarrior, which, for me, ceases game creator future-history/fiat after January 1st, 3025 - the novels, short stories and what-not (to steal your phrase) following that date are to be ripped off by the enterprising GM any way and the best way they can in order to allow the PCs the chance to become their universe's heroes - not just someone in the regimental photo, fourth from the right, third row down, wearing the "I'm with Skippy" T-shirt that they handed out during Frosh week at the MechWarrior academy. Same applies to Dark Sun post the events of The Verdant Passage.

In any case, I'm going to be - as possible - updating and completing my collection of C&C module series and settings/rule-books. To re-offer the invite to any who might have looked this over, any Dark Sun stories would be appreciated.

Final point - again, totally disconnected from the OP - one thing that I kept from the AD&D first edition Player's Handbook, which differentiates significantly from the C&C PH, all printings, is that I kept the description of the half-orcs (a greatly appreciated and, again, underutilized PC race in that original game, in my opinion) given in that work; to wit, that 90% of children born of orc-human parentage are basically orcs - PCs are considered to be in the remaining 10% who can pass as human (though they might, as per player choice, have some interesting physical markers/distinguishing features). In my opinion, players who choose the half-orc in C&C should have all opportunity to choose the sort of description given in the C&C PH, an almost completely human appearance, or something in between.

Okay, I've got two completely separate topics in one post/thread - Rigon, you want to split this last part into its own thread, you have my permission (not that you really need it, but it makes me feel like I really have a hand in this). Hoping that this subject - and subjects, really- instigates some additional commentary, and looking forward to acquiring further C&C work and playing the game.


Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:57 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Dark Sun: Anyone Used C&C Attributes to Smooth Play Out?
Rigon wrote:
I moved your post to this forum. Only a handful of people can reply to posts in the Keeper's Forum. I love Dark Sun and did a complete adaptation a while ago (including psionics). However, like you, I've only ran a couple of one shots.

You can get my adaptations in the Whatnots section of my sig.

R-



Hmmmmm Dark Sun ..... one shot .... sounds familiar .... let me think ..... OH I REMEMBER .... when you see an ant-lion .... RUN !!!! :shock: :lol:

That said, I was in one of Rigon's 'one shots' well I was until said ant-lion ate my character. It was a blast and it was a great adaption.

I did only have a little experience with 2e Dark Sun back in the day, but Rigon's adaption was very well done.

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Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:16 pm
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