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Questions about magic 
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Hlobane Orc
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Post Questions about magic
- do you allow reading from a spellbook into a spellbook just like with scrolls?
- how much spellbooks with spells written in them are worth?

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Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:54 pm
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Hlobane Orc

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Post Re: Questions about magic
Am just going to throw in a quick reply to your first interrogative: To the best of my understanding - and this is largely out of a background with AD&D, although I suspect C&C would not really be any different in this regard - the answer is yes; you can read spells out of books directly. However, the caveat - a big one - is that, just like a scroll, the spell vanishes off the book's page once it's been read out loud rather than been memorized. Thus, reading spells off a book's page is a one-timer; the spell's gone forever once such an action has been taken.

Again, that's my understanding, off of AD&D. If C&C differs in any major aspect please let both Greyblade and me know.

As a quick side point: again, I do recall seeing it brought up - it was probably a question in Dragon or something like that - as to whether it was possible to transfer a wizard/illusionist's spell from a scroll in to a spellbook - thus making it a potentially limitless resource. Again, I recall it was possible - if the wizard/illusionist had the correct type of ink, pens, spellbook and the time to do so, all of which would require some serious bucks. Again, the scroll's magic would be rendered used and expired by the transfer, but the spell itself would now be part of the wizard/illusionist's book, and thus subject to repeat memorizations.

That's the best I can do with your first question; as for the second, there's probably a set scale for that kind of thing somewheres...


Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:28 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Questions about magic
I allow the use of a spell book like a scroll with the wipe of the spell...providing a Read Magic is also used unless the spell book was written by the person attempting to use it that way.

For value, I use a very rough (100 gp/level x spell) + (spell value x 0.5%). So a spell book with 3 x 1st level spells and 1 x 2nd level spell would be 100 x 5= 500. Plus and additional (500 x 0.5) for a total value of 750 gp There might be something in the CKG or buried in the spell sections of the PHB or M&T that is more official, though I've not really spotted it or looked that deep for it.

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Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:20 am
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Hlobane Orc

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Post Re: Questions about magic
Go0gleplex wrote:
I allow the use of a spell book like a scroll with the wipe of the spell...providing a Read Magic is also used unless the spell book was written by the person attempting to use it that way.

This is a really good point; I'd been working off the presumption that the person reading the spell actually created the book in question. Regarding costs - I'd kind of be of the mind that purchasing spells from "Ye Olde Magick & Cantrips Shoppe" - if available at all - would run well into the tens of thousands gp per spell level. Of course, this is the kind of thing that is mega dependent on what kind of game-world the CK wants to construct; low-magic worlds, such as Conan (and I'm referring to Robert Howard's original stories here, not the MMPOG), would charge fees that would be almost unsupportable except by the most exorbitantly rich PCs, if available at all, whereas high-magic realms (and I'm thinking Game of Thrones as an example here) might have such resources commercially available, if someone happened to be in the right area.

In any event, this is the sort of thing that CKs are going to have suss out for themselves as they assemble their C&C world. Places such as Aihrde and The Haunted Highlands, among others, should contain some guidelines as to whether such resources are a matter of commercial availability, and what sort of rate is set for selling and buying.


Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:13 am
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Hlobane Orc
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Post Re: Questions about magic
Thanks for the answers guys, I was referring to the "read a scroll into a spellbook" rule that allows spellcasters to basically transfer a spell from a scroll to their spellbook at no expense, but destroying the scroll in the process.

Was wondering if the same was doable with spellbooks to spellbooks. One of my players found a spellbook, but doesn't have the money to slowly copy the spells from one book to the other.

And thank you for the calculation method regarding my 2nd question

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Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:34 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Questions about magic
Greyblade wrote:
Was wondering if the same was doable with spellbooks to spellbooks. One of my players found a spellbook, but doesn't have the money to slowly copy the spells from one book to the other.


Why would they need to? Once they learn the spells in the other spellbook; again, Read Magic being required, then they should just be able to study that book as they would their own since they've 'deciphered' it's magical script already. True it's more books to carry around...then again, that's why wizards have their own libraries of various tomes. The only reason I could really see that being necessary is if the book in question is in bad enough shape that handling it could result in its destruction somehow.

But to answer the question put; that one would be a no IMO.

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Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:50 pm
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Hlobane Orc
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Post Re: Questions about magic
Not a bad point :)

I'll see what the player wants to do

Thank you all! Have a great weekend!

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Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:26 pm
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Hlobane Orc

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Post Re: Questions about magic
Go0gleplex wrote:
Greyblade wrote:
Was wondering if the same was doable with spellbooks to spellbooks. One of my players found a spellbook, but doesn't have the money to slowly copy the spells from one book to the other.


Why would they need to? Once they learn the spells in the other spellbook; again, Read Magic being required, then they should just be able to study that book as they would their own since they've 'deciphered' it's magical script already.

I'm kind of dragging this out, seeing as Greyslade has confirmed his question answered, but I can see the purpose and advantage in copying from spellbook to spellbook. Here, I think it'd be mostly a matter about how tight the CK is regarding encumbrance and so forth; having mage Glockenspiel haul those twelve spellbooks around in that sack he's carrying over his shoulder might be something that slows the entire group down ([disappointed groan]"Aw, c'mon, Glock - you said you'd be able to haul back a couple thousand gp this time out!"), or presents a mere inconvenience - be kind of neat if a spellbook could be constructed that's like the Orange Catholic Bible that Paul reads at the beginning of Dune...waitaminit...that gives me an idea...


Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:25 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Questions about magic
Telhawk wrote:
Go0gleplex wrote:
Greyblade wrote:
Was wondering if the same was doable with spellbooks to spellbooks. One of my players found a spellbook, but doesn't have the money to slowly copy the spells from one book to the other.


Why would they need to? Once they learn the spells in the other spellbook; again, Read Magic being required, then they should just be able to study that book as they would their own since they've 'deciphered' it's magical script already.

I'm kind of dragging this out, seeing as Greyslade has confirmed his question answered, but I can see the purpose and advantage in copying from spellbook to spellbook. Here, I think it'd be mostly a matter about how tight the CK is regarding encumbrance and so forth; having mage Glockenspiel haul those twelve spellbooks around in that sack he's carrying over his shoulder might be something that slows the entire group down ([disappointed groan]"Aw, c'mon, Glock - you said you'd be able to haul back a couple thousand gp this time out!"), or presents a mere inconvenience - be kind of neat if a spellbook could be constructed that's like the Orange Catholic Bible that Paul reads at the beginning of Dune...waitaminit...that gives me an idea...


Typically, the mage is only using a travelling spell book or three to be carried with them. The majority of such books as well as copies thereof, are typically left at whatever home base or possibly in a guild vault somewhere. Arguably most campaigns do not have such things and the mage is dependent upon hauling stuff like this around. Conversely speaking though, the alchemical lab or work space needed to produce the special inks, quills, media, etc. required for the creation of both spell books and scrolls would necessitate something of a home base being required since that would be even more equipment, materials, etc. a simple traveling mage would be required to carry. Renting such places out for a month or two is also possible, but then if the mage is going to spend time doing that then adding in the time to properly copy over looted spell books to their own repertoire is highly likely to occur. At which point the whole question becomes moot. ;) At least looking at it logically.

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Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:06 pm
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Hlobane Orc

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Post Re: Questions about magic
Go0gleplex wrote:
Typically, the mage is only using a travelling spell book or three to be carried with them. The majority of such books as well as copies thereof, are typically left at whatever home base or possibly in a guild vault somewhere. Arguably most campaigns do not have such things and the mage is dependent upon hauling stuff like this around. Conversely speaking though, the alchemical lab or work space needed to produce the special inks, quills, media, etc. required for the creation of both spell books and scrolls would necessitate something of a home base being required since that would be even more equipment, materials, etc. a simple traveling mage would be required to carry. Renting such places out for a month or two is also possible, but then if the mage is going to spend time doing that then adding in the time to properly copy over looted spell books to their own repertoire is highly likely to occur. At which point the whole question becomes moot. ;) At least looking at it logically.

Oh, agreed to all of the above - in my opinion, it'd be mostly a matter of exactly how detailed the CK wants to make things. Copying spells from scroll to book or book to book may be something that takes up yea amount of wizard x's time and resources, plus having to be in a pretty major urban center to get access to all of the materials you've indicated. On the other hand, said CK could just indicate that wizard x, as long as he/she contributes enough cash to do so, has the materials and location available to do the transfer; you've paid for it, taken the game time, job's done.

Anyway, this is one of those six-and-one-half-dozen-of-the-other discussions that could go on for a considerable while - at least until some kind of formal ruling is handed down by the Devs - but I do find it highly interesting to bat the subject back and forth and allow ourselves to start thinking, "Hm. Wonder what kind of resources and time would be required in my world to let wizards and illusionists start spell accumulation..."


Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:23 pm
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