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Adventure Design

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:24 pm
by Naleax
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on adventure design. What i'm specifically interested in is the process by which adventures go from an idea to a completed manuscript ready for play.

I have the KOBOLD Guide to Game Design, Vol. 1 but it's not really what i was looking for.

If anyone has written adventures and wouldn't mind sharing their process I would love to read it or if you know of any published material with advice and tips that would be great to.

Thanks

Naleax

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:46 pm
by CKDad
Are you asking about ready to play, or ready to publish? I ask because I suspect most veteran CKs and GMs don't actually write full-fledged manuscripts for their adventures; I know I don't, and never have, except on the two occasions I was submitting something for publication.

Now, as far as resources, let me first point you towards "Robins Laws of Good Gamemastery", published by Steve Jackson Games. It's out of print but there are still copies floating around, and you can grab the PDF from SJG's e23 shop (having trouble hitting the site from work, will update with a link later).

I do have more specific advice that I'll post in a bit.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:06 pm
by Breakdaddy
Davis or Casey could provide a lot of great advice if they ever see this thread.

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:06 pm
by alcyone
Yeah, it depends, are you looking to publish for generic groups or are you writing for the game you are currently running? The former obviously takes a lot more work, because you need to fill in a lot more of the details for people that are coming in cold, and you need to make fewer assumptions about party composition, setting, etc.

If it's for your own group, you can get by with little more than an outline and some bookmarks in your Monsters and Treasures book, maybe a map if you need one. Those make for a better game, because you end up making stuff up together to fill in the blanks.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:15 pm
by Go0gleplex
I use the old Dungeon Mag. guidelines as a baseline for my work. They've changed a bit since Paizo took over, but should be useful still. Then again, I tend to write most every adventure as if it is going to be published or used by someone else.
http://paizo.com/writersguidelines/dung ... elines.pdf

You want to scroll down to Appendix II - Adventure design guide (page 11)
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:25 pm
by ThrorII
Honestly, for me, its all about mining existing adventures & modules.

When I was running my C&C game I utilized the following adventures: Slag Heap, Wicked Cauldron, Rising Knight, Verdant Rage, and Goodman Games 'Lost Tomb of the Sphinx Queen'.

Now, you would be hard pressed to recognize any of those adventures as I ran them, since I incorporated them in to my Verbobonc/Gnarley Forest campaign, changing names, locations, and even denizens to fit with my campaign arc. If you knew the maps, you'd recognize it.

My process:

1. Read a published adventure.

2. Customize the plot and locations for the campaign I'm running.

3. Change or customize the encounters to fit the needs of the campaign.

When its all done, it gives the appearance (to the players) of a custom made, tailor-made, adventure. The beauty for me is that all the 'hard work' (coming up with maps, general adventure outline and 'filler') has been done. I find changing stuff is easier than making stuff up.

For non-publishing purposes, plagerism is your friend.

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:35 pm
by CKDad
So, adventure design advice, part 1: the questions to ask. The fundamental assumption in these posts will be that you're writing these to use with a regular (or prospective) gaming group.

You don't have to do this every time, especially if you've got things rolling in a campaign, but it's worth revisiting these once in a while. It's more important to do so when you're starting out, or starting a new group.

1. One shot, or part of a campaign? I'm talking about true one-shots here, with characters and possibly situations and NPCs that are disconnected from any continuing game you've got running. (Though many a campaign or campaign arc started life as a one-shot.) If it's part of a campaign, you're generally going to want to maintain some minimum level of consistency with what's gone before; or, if starting a campaign, you're setting the tone for what's to follow. In a one-shot, though, (almost) anything goes. Orcs in black pajamas and conical straw hats toting mysterious boom-sticks? Check!

2. What do your players like to do in a game? This breaks down into two sub-questions: first, what kind of players are they? Butt-kickers, hardcore role-players, tacticians who revel in the planning or problem-solving? And second, what kind of characters do they like to play? Is Jake a "specialist" who always likes to play some sort of stealthy character?

Answering #2 gives you some idea about what kinds of challenges you need to put in the party's path.

3. Is there a particular style of adventure your group likes - urban, dungeon crawl, court intrigue, etc.? You certainly don't need to do the same thing every time - Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser certainly traveled far from Lankhmar on occasion, for example - but where #2 informs the challenges, #3 speaks to what sort of situations to aim for.

4. What do you like to run? Hey, the GM is a player too, and while it shouldn't be "This is my game and you're going to like it", if you really don't enjoy a particular style of adventure, don't run it.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:22 pm
by brotherdew
If it is for an ongoing home game I would suggest starting with your background.

This gives you a framework to build around and gives you tools to drive your campaigns. You can weave in story hooks and NPCs that will become as much of a part of your game as the players themselves.

Don't be afraid to use someone else's work. I have played through a campaign and then months later, I used elements of the same campaign as a DM in a game I was running. Everything worked fine. Some of the people recognized the layout of the building we were using, but I had changed the encounters, so everything was still new.

I whole-heartedly agree with CKdad in that you have to take into account how your players play the game. If your players like hack&slash then puzzles and mounds of skill checks aren't going to appeal to them.

Keep it simple. Sometimes as DMs we can get caught up in the story we are trying to weave, but most of the time we are the only ones who really care about the story.

Do as much prep ahead of time as you can. There is nothing more distracting than a DM who is always flipping back and forth looking for a monster, or what that spell does.

Be willing to make changes. I have discovered that the moment you think you have every possible angle covered, the players will want to do the exact opposite of what you had planned. All you can do is roll with it and have fun. Who knows you might be able to lead them back to where you wanted them to go after all.
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:38 am
by Naleax
CKDad wrote:
Are you asking about ready to play, or ready to publish?

Very sorry. To be clearer, ready to publish. I have a ton of notebooks, and file folders of stuff from the late 80's to present. Most of the adventures i've run for groups in the last two decades has been custom material. I have no desire to run them again but thought it would be a good project to try and turn a fraction of these adventures into easily understood adventure manuscripts.

Most are notes on encounters, npc's, locations, basically your typical adventure fair - I likewise have accompanying maps. But the notes are all a hodge podge that need organization. What i really want to do is put them into a form/manuscript that someone else could pick up and run.

So what i'm hoping for is design advice that would aid in this endeavour.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:40 am
by Relaxo
Great advice so far.

Yes, there's a HUGE difference between planning for your game table and planning for publication.

Goodman games did a thing about how to write good mods, and most of the good ideas I've had have been a response to it.

I can't find a link, but here's the meat and potatoes:
Credit: this comes from Goodman games, not me.

(aside: any help for a link? thanks in advance!)
Quote:
At Gen Con this year we're hosting a seminar on how to write adventure modules. As preparation for the seminar, here is a list of things I look for when I get a submission for the Dungeon Crawl Classics line. A good adventure doesnt need to have all of these items. But most good adventures do have many of them.

A sense of the fantastic. Convey this through encounters, descriptions, and most importantly, magic. The fantastic is what makes D&D so much fun, and that has to come across in the adventure.

Memorable encounters. Avoid repetition. Consider all aspects of an encounter: timing, environment, opponents, hazards, battle conditions, and so on. Think about templates, feats, equipment, magic items, and spells as ways to make opponents interesting. Try to come with ideas for rooms that players will still be talking about 20 years from now.

Hard work on thinking out great encounters. Dungeons with stirges, darkmantles, chokers, rust monsters, orcs, and other no-brainer monsters strike me as lazy. The job of a published author is to produce material that the typical DM at home could not produce. Dont submit derivative dungeons.

New twists on old classics. Dont throw in a rust monster. Instead, make it a rust spider that climbs walls. Players will never suspect that the reddish-brown spider attacking them actually has the same stats as a rust monster. Surprise the players!

Easter eggs at least one well-hidden room with a cool treasure of some kind, accessible only to very diligent or very lucky PCs.

Intelligent treasure. Why give gold when you can give art objects? The treasure should match the villains and location. Sometimes the best treasure is information, because information leads to more adventures. The classic example is a treasure map; other options include blackmail lists, diaries and journals, or spell books with new spells requiring rare adventure-worthy components.

A good villain. Not every dungeon crawl needs one, but the best ones often have them. The adventure has to establish a strong emotional framework for the villain, too; its not enough for him to just be another evil necromancer.

Sequel potential. The DM should be able to continue the plot threads begun in this adventure to create future adventures for his campaign.

Distinctive levels. Each level of the dungeon should feel distinct from the ones before and after it. They shouldnt blend together.

A strong narrative feel. Usually this is a buildup with a climax in a big encounter at the end, but that formula can be varied. Regardless, focus on an encounter list that forms a storyline that reads like a great adventure novel.

Secret doors. Every dungeon needs at least one secret door, preferably hidden in a place the PCs wont think to look. Secret doors at the bottom of pit traps, secret trap doors mounted in the ceiling above normal doors... think of ways to fool the players.

Thought requirements. There should be at least one puzzle. That doesnt necessarily mean a riddle. It could be a room thats hard to figure out, or a strange new monster that can only be defeated in a special way thats alluded to elsewhere in the dungeon.

Good pacing. Long, tiresome combats should be followed by quick rooms. Thought-provoking puzzles should be followed by bloodbaths. Slow, trap-filled hallways should be followed by a rousing fight.

Group involvement. Meter the action so theres an even mix of involvement by all character classes.

A twist, preferably at the end. Establish PC expectations through read-aloud text, then use those expectations against them to create plot twists.

Subplots. Subplots vary widely, but the best ones have a few things in common. First, they involve several PCs in an ongoing drama of some kind. Second, they create mystery or intrigue. Third, they lead to potential future adventures.

New monsters. A new monster that throws off the characters is good (as opposed to simply duplicating the role of an existing monster, which is a waste of space).

A cut to the chase feeling start with a bang and get to the action fast. Dont waste time on empty rooms unless they really add something.

Intelligent ecology. Most monsters need to eat, sleep, and drink. Dungeons should allow for this fact.

Atmosphere. The dungeon should have a strong, cohesive vibe of some kind, whether dangerous, or evil, or disturbing, or reptilian, or whatever.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:43 am
by dunbruha
Lots of great ideas and resources here: http://www.roleplayingtips.com/index.php

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:57 am
by jaguar451
There are a series of articles in back issues of 'The Crusader'.

Some interesting articles on creating a sandbox at http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2009/ ... ndbox.html

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:05 am
by moriarty777
As someone who has published other people's work, I can't stress how a nicely presented proposal will work wonders.

In my honest opinion, I would recommend doing up a couple of slick proposals that are nice and concise. Something like this has a better chance of getting looked at than an unsolicitated manuscript if you are someone who is approaching a publisher for the first time.

This has the benefit of not doing a lot of extra work for nothing.

Secondly, don't underestimate the value of a 'hands-on' editor and project manager once it is in manuscript stage.

M
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:56 pm
by Relaxo
As someone who has had other people publish my work (or will be by years end), I can say it's true, a good editor and fresh set of eyes and brainstorming at every step are invaluble.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:45 pm
by Joe
Yeah, the proposal is huge because no one wants to look through an entire manuscript to determine they are already working on a similar plot.

As for editing I suggest a professional unless your confident your writing is of professional caliber. (Wife does not count). I think you understand first hand what sort of impression someones sloppy rough notes make.
Then there is comparing the peanuts one gets paid for unsolicited published adventures compared to the amount of work that went in.

if it's something along the line of submitting to a fan forum, then thats a different beast.

Just one glance thru that other forum can tell you the level of quality runs the gamut.

My issue with fan forums adventures, is I don't have time to sort the what from the chafe so I don't ever bother unless I hear a buzz.

1. Quality proposal

2. Quality writing

3. Determination I would place this as number one!

With determination you can improve your writing, create a quality proposal, and finish the project to the end.

Without determination your just a fan boy with a cool idea. (And theres nothing wrong with that!)

Fanboys rock!

Heck, just look at what some of the fans have accomplished with C&C...and don't get me started on WFRP.
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:00 pm
by Sir Osis of Liver
Cool thread.

The resources I prefer are out of print. I really like the GFW series, especially Insidiae, for this. If you're going to GenCon, I saw one of the discount vendors there with a bunch of copies last year for $5 a crack (some place out of Michigan...I'd have to look to see if I still have a receipt from last year...I stocked up on a 2nd copy of Yggsburgh and the 3.5 version of Blackmoor (2 books) for $5 apiece).

Insidiae, World Builder, Living Fantasy and the book of names are all great additions to your collection if you can get them. I think NKG still carries most of the titles. The Canting Crew is neat for building thieves' guilds as well.

I also have used the copy of Toolbox (AEG) that I bought from Pat a while ago pretty extensively. There's some very neat stuff in there.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:04 pm
by Breakdaddy
Titan Games was selling copies of the GFW stuff a while back for about that. They're good folks and I can recommend them.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:06 pm
by Joe
What is this GFW?

Gygax's world stuff? Yeah thats good stuff for reference.

I still prefer the Toolbox compared to the ultimate toolbox.

But as a player that has played ion your games I know you know HOW to make a cool adventure, and that is not the question is it?

As I understand it it is getting it to a professional level?

If all you want is post it online, all you need is some practice with desktop publishing (Its already on your puter!)
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'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:10 pm
by Sir Osis of Liver
Joe wrote:
What is this GFW?

It's the Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds series that TLG published until Gary's family yanked the license. Projects that Gary either wrote himself for the Trolls or put his name on through some degree of association.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:07 pm
by mabon5127
Great thread with lots of good advice!

Proves I am never too old to learn just too old!

Morgan

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:46 pm
by Naleax
Joe wrote:
As I understand it it is getting it to a professional level?

Joe you are correct. Specifically adventure design, from concept to complete manuscript. I've been re-reading "The Kobold Guide to Game Design" and there is actually some pretty useful advice, but there is nothing like personal experience.

Here is how i have started. I've taken my DM'ing notes and started the following rough draft process.

1. Write a teaser. (Basically this is what you would read on the back of the module to wet your appetite about picking up the adventure.)

2. Write a synopsis. (What the PC's might or can do from the onset of the adventure up to the end or finale.)

3. Write the background or history. (Basically who, what, when, where and why.)

4. Compile a list of encounters and calculate possible exp to be earned.

5. List monsters and stat blocks. Stat out new monsters.

6. Draw maps. (Already done since i have these from past play.)

7. Detail encounters and dungeon rooms. (Flavor text)

This is my loosey goosey process. Probably not the best, but i'm working through it and trying to improve it at the moment.

I have almost all of the books mentioned in previous posts and use them primarily for inspiration when the old noggin peters out. It's all good advice so keep it coming.

Anyone have any experience with Wolfgang Baur's Open Design project?

Naleax

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:56 pm
by Joe
i was thinking about this thread last night. yes, im have nothing better to do that sit u into wee hours of the morning pondering game related threads. Could be worse...I could have real problems to think about.
After reading your latest post i assume i was on the right track.

i would not focus so much on xp though except maybe for story xp. Party get x number for saving princess and returning crown. party get x number for just saving the crown or just saving the princess, etc. It been my experience most C&Cers ignore raw xp and have their own systems anyway.

An outline, or a template for adventure designs would be more helpful than books for DMs. I don't think Naleax is looking for more voluminous tomes for GMs but rather a specific formula or process.

Looks like you are on the right track (more organized than I bother to get).

I think something like a template of formula would be very useful not only for publication stuff, but just to organize an adventure.
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'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:03 pm
by Joe
Sir Osis of Liver wrote:
It's the Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds series that TLG published until Gary's family yanked the license. Projects that Gary either wrote himself for the Trolls or put his name on through some degree of association.

ok, cool, i have a few of those. i found them good, but nothing any more inspiring than the original DMG to be honest. Now if you did not grow up reading the DMG then yeah, cool stuff. it just threw me off, when someone said to go to a company besides TLG to get the books.
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell