Home...

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:50 pm

Rigel Kentaurus
(RYE-jel ken-TOR-us)
Alpha Centauri

Distance (Light Years) 4.395LY 0.008LY

Visual Magnitude -0.01

Color (B-V) 0.71
Names For This Star

Rigel Kentaurus derives from the Arabic Al Rijl al Kentaurus, "The Centaur's Foot." This is often shortened to Rigil Kent.

The Bright Star Catalog lists Toliman as an alternative name for this star.

The stars of the Rigel Kentaurus system represent the nearest stars to the earth other than the sun.
A Triple Star System

* The Rigel Kentaurus system is a triple star system. The A star primary is of spectral type G2V, that is yellow star of the same type as our sun. This star is slightly larger in mass and diameter than the sun, and slightly more luminous.

* The B component of the system is separated by about 24 AU from A (that is somewhat greater than the distance between the sun and planet Uranus) and revolves with a period of 79.9 years.

* Rigel Kentaurus C is a cool red M5.5Ve main sequence dwarf with a Visual Magnitude of 11.1, corresponding to a luminosity of about 1/17,000 that of the sun. This star is known as Proxima Centauri.
The Nearest Star

Proxima is separated from the other two stars of the system by about 1/6 of a LY. At 4.22 LY from the earth, Proxima is actually the nearest single star to the earth.

'Cus that's how I roll.

...........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:31 pm

Cool. I'll be needing to get all astronomical when I get to certain parts of the R&R writing, so stuff like this will be greatly useful. Danke!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:08 pm

Bitte.

As weird as it sounds, I've been fancinated with Alpha centauri for a long time.

To be the absolute closest astronomical place of mystery for earth, and seeing the small numbers to get there... jeez, it's only 4.4 LY...

4.4 LY equates to no known way to every get there, and it's only 4.4 LY away.

I'm facinated by the "closeness" that can never be attained, and the pure possibility that lies so close, yet so far...

...........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:46 pm

Omote wrote:
4.4 LY equates to no known way to every get there, and it's only 4.4 LY away.

Whatshu talkin' bout Willis?

Haven't you ever heard of Warp drive or Hyper-drive?
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:53 pm

Hehe, perhaps he meant "no known, currently available method." Some stuff is still the realms of the morrow. Unfortunately.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:56 pm

serleran wrote:
Hehe, perhaps he meant "no known, currently available method." Some stuff is still the realms of the morrow. Unfortunately.

There's always the new matter transporter being worked on? So far, they've managed to shift a few grains of substance around. 8)
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:21 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
There's always the new matter transporter being worked on? So far, they've managed to shift a few grains of substance around. 8)

The Physics for it is out there, now we just need to wait for the technology to catch up and make the physics a reality.

Tell me something, i used to read Scientific American, even subscribed to it (great source for Shadowrun and Traveller ideas too). Anyways, I distinctly remember reading an article on teleportation in it about 6 to 8 years ago. The artivcle said how they had successfully teleported an apple and an orange.

The apple was applesauce, though. IE the skin was intact, but internally it was mushy, like applesauce.

The Orange was similiar in that the skin and cell membranes were still largely intact, but was still messed up. The articel went on to say they believe the problem was that the programming equations didn't take into account the volume of air in the chambers with the orange and apple, causing them to be "Airated".

So was that article a big hoax? Was it later revealed to be totally false? Or is it just being totally ignored?

I'm wondering, because even though it was a failure, if it was genuinely achieved then I would think the whole world would have been following the program very closely. Or did the US government turn it into an NAtional Security item?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:24 pm

I'm not familar with that article. I am referencing two other things. 1) A study started by australian scientists that managed to shift a proton or two, and 2) a more recient one where science has, apparently, taken that succes a bit further.

Course, I rather like the antimatter research that comes out of CERN. Although in that instance, one wrong move and poof.. we're an energy ball.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:11 am

I am not familiar with that article either Treebore. While I certainly don't read Scientific America, such a feat would be newsworthy in many more forms of media.

Physics are a funny thing. Theories abound in the field, and the ones that deal in travelling great distances still cannot be done within a lifetime.

Though there is nothing to prove that it is not possible for humanity to travel such distances, there is yet to be proof that it can be done.

What a terrible statement. True, but terrible nonetheless.

........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:18 am

I think we have two subjects here:

1. Molecular teleportation from one place to another - here to the next room a la The Fly.

2. Faster than light speed travel.

The first one scares me and I don't see it happening for a long time. [The Doomsday Book by Connie Willis really did a great job with this idea]

The second subject seems more plausible as we advance our learning of the space/time continuum, although again it will be some time before we can achieve that goal.

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:40 am

Actually Gideon the research at CERN is apparently not that extremely dangerous. In fact they are messing with it on such a small scale any interaction would, supposedly, be equivelant to a huge fire cracker going off.

At least that is what my brother-in-law who interned (or whatever it is they call a student position) there this past summer tells me.

Also, on faster than light travel, it may be sooner than you think. Like potentially within the next 20 years, sooner if certain advances in various areas have sudden and significant break throughs. Which a fair number believe will happen. So there is a component out there that thinks we may have FTL within 10 years.

Its hard to say with all those geniuses calling each other idiots. Can't tell who really knows what they are talking about.

Then there is another component who says we need to achieve near light travel first.

Hopefull I will see NLT if not FTL during my lifetime.

I mean think about it guys. My grandfather, who passed just a few weeks ago, grew up hearing wild stories about nuclear power and traveling to the moon and breaking the sound barrier. Let alone computers, cell phones, etc...

We may very well see some "impossible" and "unbelievable" advances before our lives our over. I sure hope so, if they are good ones.

Like I don't want to see the anti matter bomb, as an example.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:42 am

If FTL comes within my lifetime, I'll be the first one on the spacecraft. 8)
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:46 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
If FTL comes within my lifetime, I'll be the first one on the spacecraft. 8)

Get to training, space cowboy!

........................................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

babbage · Post by **babbage** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 am

There are a number of theories about FTL - which is a misnomer. Faster than Light is impossible, so to get around this 'they' propose (all of which have been 'suggested' as possible)...

Moving the vessel into a different dimension, one where light travels a lot faster, then bringing it back again.

Moving the vessel into a different dimension, one where the destination is a lot closer, then bringing it back again.

Warping space to bring the two points together, travelling across, then snapping it back again.

Then they go and say 'you'd need to harness the power of a black hole to do it though'. Cheers, guys. We know how to do it, but can't.
_________________
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:01 pm

I'll hold back my judgement on that one, many things have been declared impossible in our scientific history. Many of those impossibilities are in common use today.

I feel pretty confident in believing our understanding of how things work in the universe is lacking enough that we can still be very wrong about what is or is not possible.

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:24 pm

Hasn't "FTL" already been "proven" in a couple of different ways?

I recall reading about a light experiment in which photons were beamed through some kind of liquid/medium and the light exiting at the other end appeared much faster than it should have. something like 2X or 4X's the speed of light

Also, the communication between different (ok, going to expose my total ignorance in scientifically accurate terms here) electon pairs or something - it's a quantum issue in which "information" exchanged between the 'pair', when physically seperate, the "information" (or state I think it's called) reached the other pair instantly, even when seperated by many KM's of distance.

Finally, the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. Not any 1 section (thus not violating the Law), but taken as a whole, the total expansion is much faster than the speed of light.

if it can happen in these cases, surely it means there are other ways to break this 'barrier' as well.

when a little tot, I always fantasized that the speed of light was a physical barrier, sort of like the threshold between air and water - in which our "instruments" can only process measurements in a slower than light universe, because the physical components only operate in that universe. I always wonered that once you break past this 'barrier' will there be a whole other 'parallel' universe out there that operates FTL, in which we have no idea of yet, because we cannot observe at those rates (and they no idea of us, because they too have to breach this 'barrier' to observe us)

ya. I'm a geek

Cheers,

J

babbage · Post by **babbage** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:30 pm

Bizarrely the speed of light can be changed, so a lot of these experiments haven't actually broken the speed of light in that particular environment. I have heard of the few experiments which have recorded particles arriving at one end of an instrument before it was expected, but no explanations were given.

I think the only thing we can really be sure of is that we (the human race) don't know enough!
_________________
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:36 pm

There was a MIT experiment where light was briefly solidified, meaning that it was slowed to such a point that it could be naked-eye seen. If that can be on a massive scale, one could effectively, and theoretically, move faster than it... but due to spatial laws (time and space are related, but not dependent on each other, as far as I care) it won't help get you there any faster.

babbage · Post by **babbage** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:39 pm

But that's the point. Because of E=mc2 even if light is slowed it is still the barrier it was. It just means our upper limit is even lower.
_________________
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:50 pm

I honestly don't think FTL will ever be possible. The speed of light is a keystone in the structure of the Universe. It dictates the relationship of time to space, matter to energy. It's the arbiter by which all these fundamental aspects of our reality interact.

It's not just a speed limit, it's the foundation of everything. If lightspeed can be breached, then so can causality. Effects can dictate causes. Free will is therefore an illusion, and our supposed minds are nothing more than a fever-dream; merely the result of us stumbling, zombie-like, through preset roles that were laid down when the Universe came into being.

Consider this idea, too: Speed through space and time are the same thing. You, me and everything else always travel at the speed of light. If we're at rest in space, we travel through time at the speed of light. If we travel through space at lightspeed, we're at rest in time (time dilation). At fractions in between, the speed is shared. Acceleration is just changing the ratio of timelike speed to spacelike speed. That actually mirrors conservation of momentum, if you think about it.

So no, I don't think that we will ever travel faster than light. The Universe is just plain bigger thanwe are. Bigger than our egos, even. But I'm not convinced that we need to. It's no cause for despair. Perhaps we can push the limit with super-efficient interstellar ramjets.

You cans till travel to the Alpha Centauri system and explore, but you'd better be prepared to set aside a decade or two. Captain Cook did it, he (and his crew) signed away years of their lives, and all he went to Tahiti for was to make an astronomical observation!

Perhaps we can pile the decimals so close that we can tour the Galaxy in a year, and come home 100,000 years later. Maybe we can alter ourselves so utterly that leaving family behind for a hundred millennia is no more than a painful au revoir, and not an eternal goodbye.

Maybe we will achieve control over matter to such an extent that we can build our own solar systems and stellar clusters from scratch, or create planet-free arcologies that drift around the Sun, or between the stars, on their own courses and their own timetables, scattered like thistledown.

Perhaps tomorrow is more, is richer, is fuller and more satisfying, than our instant-gratification, microwave-pizza mentalities can yet fully grasp. I don't think that galactic empires are gonna be in it, though.

And I think I'm OK with that. Huh; just getting man-rated ships beyond LEO would be a start!
_________________
History teaches us that men behave wisely once they've exhausted all other alternatives.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:02 pm

jman raised a couple of good pointers that actually show just how resilient the lightspeed bariirer is.

There was an experiment in which lasers were shone through a medium of caesium vaopur, and lased photons arrived up to 300 times faster than they should. However, the full wave function was not completed until the normal lightseepd limit was observed. Consider this as an analogy; imagine a horse race. A horse at the rear suddenly grows an incredibly long neck, so that it wins by a nose. However, its ass is still the last thing across the line.

Not to mention the difficulty of filling the Universe with caesium vapour!

The second phenomenon is called quantum entanglement, and seems to occur either instantly or very, very fast indeed. However, no information can be sent via entanglement.

Consider; home base and your spaceship each capture an entangled photon. The spin of the base's photon is flipped, and therefore so is the spin on yours. However, when you take a look at the photon, all you can tell is that its spin is in this direction at this time. You can't tell what its spin used to be, if it's been flipped or not. The only way for you to know if base flipped the spin of the photon at their end is for them to radio you and let you know.

Which kind of defeats the whole point!

So, while certain exotic phenomena seem to push past the lightspeed barrier, the fact is that no information, no energy, no matter, can go faster than the speed of light in vacuo. Sometimes, not even light can go that fast (it slows down in water, for instance), but the speed of light is its own value; it's not dependent on light, it's just that light, being massless, can go that fast in ideal conditions.
_________________
History teaches us that men behave wisely once they've exhausted all other alternatives.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:02 pm

Well, if those scientists get cracking on the research of the water bear (its a parasite that survives by feeding on moths with the ability to survive temperatures to -450 F or +300 F, 1000x the radiation to kill a man, and can shut their metabolism down to the point of stasis in which they can survive dormant for at least 120 years, not to mention supposedly having the potential to survive in a pure vacuum) and those Aussies crank out the material on the burrow frog (its a frog that retains its body mass and muscle strength in a state of inactivity for up to 7 years or so, in addition to retaining an emergency supply of water during drought), us lowly less-capable humans, just might be able to do some rather amazing things...

Animals are the true superpowers of this world.

babbage · Post by **babbage** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:04 am

I don't understand why you can't know that the owner of the other entangled photon has changed the spin. As I understand it, they entangle in pairs. If you know it's spinning in one way, then it begins spinning in another, and you didn't change it - surely that implies the other owner changed it?

Unless you are implying that other things outside of this relationship can change the spin, which then means you don't know who (or what)'s changed it, and it could be anybody (or anything).
_________________
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:57 pm

catweazle: Thanks for clarifying those admittedly complex concepts for me. I was worried that this was all just a halucination on my part and my understanding of the principles were wrong... (most likely were - the bane of learning science through Scientific America and Discover magazines)

but but but... if we cannot travel faster than light, how are we (earthlings) ever going to get involved in the great intersteller war with our ultimate ascention to a dominant galactic Earth based Empire??? How can I possibly become Emperor of the known universe if we will have trouble getting to Jupiter?

cheers,

J

babbage · Post by **babbage** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:30 pm

Even without travelling faster than light you can still conquer the universe. All you need to do is either warp space so that the points are nearer to each other, or travel through an alternate dimension where those points are nearer to each other. Simple, huh?

Now all I have to do is work out how...
Come to think of it though, your biggest obstacle to conquering the universe is not FTL, but the Health and Safety Executive.
_________________
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin