Troll Lord Games

I thought I already posted this question but I cannot find it in my list.

I am looking for a simple, balanced, straightforward and original approach to multiclassing for a new rpg.

I think the original rules are too easily abused.

I am not interested in lifting from another existing system. (I've stopped reading other systems for the sake of creative integrity) I would like to write some original rules, or give you credit for yours.

Personally I enjoy exploring archetypes but no game can pass without someone asking to multiclass. Then the spiral of unbalanced munchkinism always comes next.

Though I consider power gaming a legit approach to gaming I wish to write some simple rules for multiclassing that the casual gamer can enjoy without all the rules crunching and min-maxing.

Any suggestions?

Perhaps the most straightforward method is to not allow multiclassing at all. Instead, it is replaced with some predefined "melded classes" or whatever phrase you prefer to use. For example, if someone wants to play a fighter/magic-user, you simply have a class which has those abilities and its own progression rates; you can even make it easier and have all "melded classes" use the same progression rate if you believe all classes are inherently equivalent to each other. The problem with this comes when someone wants only X of Class Y but not the rest -- for that, a simple method is a class-builder mechanic, but then you're back to the min-maxing you wished to avoid (in fact, I have postulated such a system on the old boards in the past which I felt was minimally complex.)

Another option is to, rather than allow an entire class to be assumed, let the player select X number of currently-non-class abilities to replace those they do currently have. You could embed a system for swapping "values" to keep numbers down, which would then also imply a class-builder system. For example, you might say that Decode Writing is a 1 point ability; use of all "arcane magic" is a 3 (or 4) point ability. This would mean that the aspiring rouge/magic-user has to swap out something a bit more potent to get the more powerful non-class options. Again, this encourages min-maxing.

More variables come into play if race is considered a class or if characters automatically gain additional abilities not related, directly, to class, such as the d20 "feat concept." In this type of situation, you could simply have a player choose from some list of allowed choices -- at X XP earned, they get one. At Y, another. Perhaps the second requires the first, but then you start to get into the realm of more complex and "pre-engineering."

If it were me, I would go with something like "no actual multiclassing; if you want the abilities of two classes, pick a melded class." I would then define even some of the more common archetypes as such -- for example, in my game version, a paladin would be a melded fighter-cleric.

I use multiclassing as described in the PHB 4th printing.

As for homebrew rules, I do allow different classes to be taken later in the career of the PC. I facilitate this by using a new/different XP chart. For example, if a PC advances to 4th level as a fighter, at some point while a 4th level fighter the player will have to decide if he is going to take another class for his 5th level.

I make this easy by using a different XP chart for characters that add different levels as they go.

Lvl XP
1 N/A
2 3,000
3 6,000
4 13,000
5 26,000
6 52,000
7 104,000
8 208,000
9 400,000
10 750,000
11 1,100,000
12 1,450,000
+350,000 per level beyond 12.

When the PC decides that he is going to pick up a new class (2nd class) he needs tp acquire the XP inidacted on the above chart. From this point on the character uses this new chart to advance levels.

If the PC wants to pick up a 3rd class, they will follow a differnt XP chart.

1 N/A
2 N/A
3 8,000
4 16,000
5 32,000
6 64,000
7 128,000
8 256,000
9 500,000
10 900,000
11 1,300,000
12 1,700,000
+400,000 XP per level after 12.

Demi-humans can only ever have 2 classes. Humans can only have a maximum of 3 classes.

If a class wants to go back to a class he previously had taken levels in, he continues on the current XP chart that he using. He does not change XP charts for learning a class he had once taken levels in.

PCs who start their career as multiclasses characters as described in the C&C PHB 4th printing can never pick up a new class via these rules. They are "locked in" to those multiclass rules.

~O

Its definitely a sore spot for me. I've seen players munch their way thru games with multiple classes. It has happened in my FR game until we all spent 1 full gaming session discussing it.

Serl's suggestions are good. However, just do what is suggested and don't allow it. Its what I have told my players for my 3rd FR game starting next year (2012)

L.S.

When I started our group back up I just flat out said no multiclass at this time. Let's play the for awhile and see how we feel later. Since then we have all grown more accustomed to SEIGE and I think really you can get most of what you like in multiclass just by good role-playing and SEIGE checks.

Example:

We have a 6th level Half-Elven Ranger who at 5th level after 6 month or so of game time decided that all this "dungeon crawling" was changing his world view. There was 3 month, game time, break as character ran around the sandbox doing little things. This Ranger went to the dwarven kingdom and spent the entire break being trained in all things "underdark". He swore to serve their king as needed and went on deep patrols as a regular "dwarven scout". The upshot of all this was the training was there and when he made 6th level he picked Duergar as his favored enemy and he is now able to use his hide and move silently in natural underground terrain. [Before this is was trying but got no class bonus, no I give it to him]

So... Is he a ranger/thief? No he's a ranger with a purpose.

I would allow a Wizard to start training with a sword and eventually get "ok" at it. Would he ever be as good as a fighter, heck no. But would it fulfill the vision the player has of a fighter/mage? Maybe.

I think there is life after "NO MULTICLASS" and it means greater player investment in developing their characters.

-Mike

You folks have some good insight.
I like to number my rules so what do you think of the following?

Rule Number 1: There are no multiclasses in (Game Name here)

Rule Number 2: Ther are NO MULTICLASSES in (Game Name Here)

Rule Number 3: For those players that still do not understand the last two rules, here are your options: Then instead of the traditional crunch of multiclasses I will remind folks that any character is free to attempt anything. If those attempts are successful for say 10 attempts then the pc has acquired that ability.
For instance if a caster wishes to use a sword and does so repeatedly then they will be able to use the sword after so many successful attempts without having to make an ability check.
I will write a paragraph or chapter devoted to the flexibility of the rules rather than the tweeking of numbers or multiclassing.

OOC: I will never understand why players read the rules, the parameters of the game and their first effort is to find loopholes or ways to circumvent the parameters laid before them rather than enjoy and explore the game as it is designed. I've never really been that sort of player, or person for that matter and I understand they think they are being clever or creative with the rules but when time after time I see one player reducing, or outright smashing the fun factor for the other players i'm always left scratching my head.

So what do you think of my 3 proposed rules?

Joe wrote:You folks have some good insight.
I like to number my rules so what do you think of the following?

Rule Number 1: There are no multiclasses in (Game Name here)

Rule Number 2: Ther are NO MULTICLASSES in (Game Name Here)

Rule Number 3: For those players that still do not understand the last two rules, here are your options: Then instead of the traditional crunch of multiclasses I will remind folks that any character is free to attempt anything. If those attempts are successful for say 10 attempts then the pc has acquired that ability.
For instance if a caster wishes to use a sword and does so repeatedly then they will be able to use the sword after so many successful attempts without having to make an ability check.
I will write a paragraph or chapter devoted to the flexibility of the rules rather than the tweeking of numbers or multiclassing.

OOC: I will never understand why players read the rules, the parameters of the game and their first effort is to find loopholes or ways to circumvent the parameters laid before them rather than enjoy and explore the game as it is designed. I've never really been that sort of player, or person for that matter and I understand they think they are being clever or creative with the rules but when time after time I see one player reducing, or outright smashing the fun factor for the other players i'm always left scratching my head.

So what do you think of my 3 proposed rules?

I like them. Since I'm not in your game, though, it doesn't much matter what I think. If it works for you and your players, that's all that matters. I, for one, am willing to let players try whatever they want, as long as it's within the bounds of the rules (or a houserule I've enacted). I've said it before, but it bears repeating. One of the big things I've come to enjoy about C&C is the fact that it's very hard for players to min/max and game the system. It forces them to use their imaginations instead of relying on rules lawyering abilities.